D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: Monk reactions?

[mellored]

Slightly refined suggestion.

Level 1:
*You have 1 dp per level
*you regain 1 dp at the beginning of your turn
*As a bonus action, you can spend 1dp to dash or disengage. 2 for both.
*Unarmed savings throws (grapple, shove) are based on Dex

All other dp costs double.

 

[Clint_L]

Slightly refined suggestion.

Level 1:
*You have 1 dp per level
*you regain 1 dp at the beginning of your turn
*As a bonus action, you can spend 1dp to dash or dodge. 2 for both.
*Unarmed savings throws (grapple, shove) are based on Dex

All other dp costs double.

I thought we were trying to make monks better, not much, much worse. You've added more finicky resource management to allow them to spend the resources the same as now, except we can combine dash and dodge for double the cost (why would you want to combine dash and dodge? Are you staying and fighting, or running away?). And then you've doubled the cost of everything else...so effectively halved the amount of resources monks have...but then they regenerate 1 DP per round so they can flurry of blows every other round?

I don't think you're being serious. I'm not engaging further. These arguments about monks not being weak because they can kite with a ranged weapon or occasionally move fast aren't worth wasting further time on. If you think monk is in great shape, fair enough. Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I'll just point out that the very broad consensus of players since 2014 has been that monks are not very good, which seems to be something that designers should want to correct.

You can't please everyone. But I think as a designer you want the broad consensus for every class to be "pretty good." It seems very apparent that monks are not close to that status as of yet. I'm not making proposals that I think will make monks amazing; I just want them to be more capable of the design niche for which they are clearly intended: highly mobile striker. I think for that you need two things to happen: reliable mobility, and relatively high on demand melee offence, balanced against relatively weaker defence.

Right now, the relatively weaker defence is baked into the monk with a d8 hit die and lower AC. Those are always in play for the monk. But they have to choose between offence or mobility, and both are limited by a scarce resource until at least the upper-mid tier of play (level 7 or so). So you have a class that is sometimes hard hitting, sometimes fast, but always fragile. That is a really hard niche to operate within.

The rogue has a very similar niche, except that their speed/maneuverability and offence are always switched on, to compensate for their fragility, and they can use both in the same turn, since their extra offence (sneak attack) is linked to their action (and can be used at range, giving them yet more flexibility), while their speed/maneuverability (cunning action) comes from their bonus action. Synergy! Plus, expertise gives them more out of combat utility, typically as a scout. They make sense. Monks don't.

 

[Zaukrie]

I hope WotC really looks at this design compared to the rogue, and asks why this class exists..... And fixes it. It's just not good enough right now.

 

[mellored]

why would you want to combine dash and dodge?

Mistyped
Ment dash and disengage.

Now you can do either for "free" each round.

And then you've doubled the cost of everything else...so effectively halved the amount of resources monks have...but then they regenerate 1 DP per round so they can flurry of blows every other round?

Flurry cost 2 and you get 1 back. Net results is the same number of base flurries.

Except where you would now run out. I have add the option to do it again in 2 turns.

Longer battles means more monk moves. And you aren't dependent on short rests.

Finicky? possibly a little.
But it's straight up doing more monk stuff, especially at low levels.

 

[mellored]

Example level 2 monk, 5 rounds of combat.

Currently
1: Dash & disengage
2; flurry
3:-
4:-
5:-
1 hour rest

My suggestion
1: dash
2: flurry
3: disengage
4:-
5: flurry
12 seconds rest

 

[Stalker0]

Actually I think you can solve a lot of the monk problems with a very simple change.

Unarmed Strikes gain the push mastery (which doesn't consume your other masteries).

This both always gives you a use for unarmed strikes, AND it lets a monk push a person away from them at the end of their routine, allowing them to move back and skirmish. It lets a monk skirmish without consuming their ki or bonus actions. Keep in mind that a monk who does this on their last attack and hasn't move yet can move 40 feet, out of speed range of many monsters. This increases further when they get their first +10 feet speed boost.

And of course the other cool combos you can do with it. A 5th level monk using 4 unarmed strikes with flurry "throwing" an opponent back 40 feet kind of thing.

That alone might make a huge difference. I've already shown that the monk can do plenty of damage at low levels, its only the surviability that's the problem. But if you let them skirmish and avoid attacks by just not being there....that's a nice niche that significantly adds to their survivability in a way that fighters and barbs don't.

Fighters: I take it on my armor
Barb: I absorb it on my muscles
Monk: They can't hurt me if they can't catch me

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Unarmed Strikes gain the push mastery (which doesn't consume your other masteries).

Yep. That'd be the easy first step, so our mobility class doesn't have to worry so much about Disengaging.

But instead, the only non-subclass-restricted push option is greatclub (once or twice per round)... because the school of caveman style is the fantasy we're selling.

There is now the boring element subclass, who can pay the Ki tax to activate reach + pushing. So I guess that's the required subclass just to make the main class work, and it is not as good as the Push weapon mastery because it has a save attached.

 

[Zaukrie]

I mean, the fact they can't move their opponents all over the field of battle seems like a real loss to me. Maybe that should their niche, moving their opponents around and imposing conditions on them.....you know, like very single cool MA movie ever.

 

[Stalker0]

I mean, the fact they can't move their opponents all over the field of battle seems like a real loss to me. Maybe that should their niche, moving their opponents around and imposing conditions on them.....you know, like very single cool MA movie ever.

It also would create cool combos with your fellow martials.

Monk gives the orc a swift kick knocking it into its buddy. The barbarian laughs as he pulls out his axe and cleaves into both of them.

 

[mellored]

Unarmed Strikes gain the push mastery (which doesn't consume your other masteries).

Sure.

And give the option to spend a ki to push larger creatures.