Gate Pass Gazette Playtest the ARTIFICER (Kickstarter backers only)

[Faolyn]

i'd also like to ask: do you pay the gold price every time you prepare your inventions, or only when you prepare a different spell, or only when you gain another spell to prepare? i ask because the last line before explaining the fizzle die is says you reintegrate them into new inventions.

It looks as though you only have to spend the gold if you make a new invention, because "you are able to repair them with whatever is on hand." It'd be nice to have it cleared up, though.

you create the curare through your tactical chemistry feature, which at this level lets you add your intelligence to the save. that takes the save DC from 13 to 16-18, depending on your intelligence (if your 9th level artificer has less then 16 int at this point, don't even talk to me honestly), which is a lot better.

I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.

my only problem with the marvel of innovation feature is that, aside from being able to create more valuable trade goods, this doesn't really do anything. it's basically just "you can make more money during downtime", which is...nice, i guess, but odd for an adventurer.

Agreed. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think that being the inventor of something should up your prestige rating a bit, or give you a bonus on Charisma checks made against people who use it. Something like that. (This also makes me want to have a new follower type: salesperson, who goes forth and earns money for you by hawking your wares.)

also, technological attunement is a crazy jump. you go from being able to attune to 3 items straight to 5 at level 14 (and you never get a 6th like in o5e, which is fine, but i like the idea of high level artificers just going "haha, attunement items go brr"). like, wow, yeah, level 14's a good spot for 5 items to attune to, but the jump gives me whiplash. getting a 4th earlier on (say, at level 10 with trinket master) would make this less jarring.

I was thinking that but forgot to write it. It should be 4 items at level 10 or so, and then 5 at 14.

and laboratory of the master honestly feels like several class features mashed into one that all come online too late to really be of any use. like yeah, okay, a laboratory stronghold for my artificer is nice, but am i really going to play long enough after i hit level 20 for any of this stuff to actually matter? i think this should have been spread across a few levels (maybe level 14 for the expertise and followers, 17 for the grade 4 stuff, 20 for the grade 6 stuff? although just being able to get inspiration on a long rest for the 20th level ability might be underwhelming) so that the player could actually have time to really play with this stronghold.

Also agreed. Although I think that this Laboratory should be a type of stronghold and something different should be used as the 20th-level ability. I'm not sure what. Maybe a philosophers' stone or a wish-generating engine or something like that?

i don't know why this takes a regular class resource anyways. the bombardier doesn't do this - why do the engineer and stitcher do it? but if we are going to be giving up class resources for these modifications, i don't think it should be your spells.

I imagine they felt it would be OP if the engineer had a pet and all of their spells, particularly since with luck, they may never lose their "spell slot" by rolling a 1 on the Fizzle Die. I don't think it would be OP, though, and it would probably be better if they just said a pet could have a certain number of modifications at a time depending on your level or maybe equal to half your PB. (Although that said, the Grafted Spell Invention should take up an invention.)

I've noticed that people tend to have one of two different reactions when it comes to pet archetypes: They either love sending pets into battle for them, or they hate that everything about the archetype is based around the pet and the PC has nothing to do themselves (in combat, at least). Sadly, by giving up inventions to modify the pets, this makes these two archetypes having little to do in combat.

also, advanced grafting sucks really bad. i can kind of understand making the engineer's advanced modifications take an extra invention (even if i think it should be taking infusions instead), but you're going to make the stitcher not only need to give up an extra invention, but also have a fresh corpse (of a dragon or giant for two of them, no less!) on hand to make them (and if you also need the corpses to maintain those advanced modifications, then at that point they're just worthless)??? like, damn, way to kill a cool idea.

I imagine this is more along the lines of, you've killed a dragon or giant because you're an adventurer, so know you can use their parts. Now I'm wondering if this is why Stitchers get gentle repose--to keep those parts fresh for longer.

Actually, this brings up an issue I have with the spell inventions: that they have to be able to be wielded. What if I want my gentle repose to take the form of a Tupperware container?

 

[VenerableBede]

I haven't seen anyone else mention this—here's my big concern with Artificer. By my reading, you use your magical inventions to cast spells, and you must hold your magical invention to cast a spell. Wouldn't this create an issue with drawing and stowing items when trying to cast different spells on different turns? Could also create an issue with carrying capacity, given that every invention weighs a number of spells equal to its base spell level, at least with artificers with a low strength.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Spell Inventions: This is the best way I have seen for an artificers take on spells, I absolutly love it.
Infusions: The change to infusions makes more sense to me than the o5e artificer
Laboratory of the Master: While I really love this ability it is definitely not a capstone ability. This should be a level 10 or 11th level ability in my oppion.

Bombardier: The main thing that irks me about the archetype is that I only get a limited number of Bombs. The powerlevel is fine and the fact that they would work for sneak attacks or multi attacks is also nice and is the main reason I don't think they should be more powerful or more plentiful but it still irks me.

Engineer: Healing your vehicle needs to be clearer. With both this archetype and the sticher I have a feeling that you are going to be sacrificing your bonus spells prepared for extra modifications. I am torn

 

[W'rkncacnter]

It's classified.

oh-ho...

It looks as though you only have to spend the gold if you make a new invention, because "you are able to repair them with whatever is on hand." It'd be nice to have it cleared up, though.

yeah, just seems like something that needs clarity.

I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.

np

Agreed. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think that being the inventor of something should up your prestige rating a bit, or give you a bonus on Charisma checks made against people who use it. Something like that. (This also makes me want to have a new follower type: salesperson, who goes forth and earns money for you by hawking your wares.)

ooo, yeah, that could be fun. maybe a +1 to prestige immediately for inventing it and expertise on prestige checks when leveraging your invention.

Also agreed. Although I think that this Laboratory should be a type of stronghold and something different should be used as the 20th-level ability. I'm not sure what. Maybe a philosophers' stone or a wish-generating engine or something like that?

yeah, that sounds like it'd fit a lot better. as for a replacement capstone, the o5e artificer's capstone, despite the class being lackluster overall, actually has one of the best capstones in the system (alongside the barbarian's). i think that might be a good start (honestly, it might even be fine by itself).

I imagine they felt it would be OP if the engineer had a pet and all of their spells, particularly since with luck, they may never lose their "spell slot" by rolling a 1 on the Fizzle Die. I don't think it would be OP, though, and it would probably be better if they just said a pet could have a certain number of modifications at a time depending on your level or maybe equal to half your PB. (Although that said, the Grafted Spell Invention should take up an invention.)

I've noticed that people tend to have one of two different reactions when it comes to pet archetypes: They either love sending pets into battle for them, or they hate that everything about the archetype is based around the pet and the PC has nothing to do themselves (in combat, at least). Sadly, by giving up inventions to modify the pets, this makes these two archetypes having little to do in combat.

so...i was going to agree with you, and i was going to elaborate...and then i went through the archetype spells again.
and then i realized, with the way they're phrased, your archetype spells are always prepared, in addition to your class spells.
you get 10 spells overall from each archetype (over several levels, of course) - which means you get more prepared spells from your archetype then your class, as well.

i...now understand why these archetypes use your spell inventions for the modifications. i am now convinced the artificer...might be one of the best casters in a5e if this isn't changed.

Actually, this brings up an issue I have with the spell inventions: that they have to be able to be wielded. What if I want my gentle repose to take the form of a Tupperware container?

ok the tupperware thing is hilarious

I haven't seen anyone else mention this—here's my big concern with Artificer. By my reading, you use your magical inventions to cast spells, and you must hold your magical invention to cast a spell. Wouldn't this create an issue with drawing and stowing items when trying to cast different spells on different turns? Could also create an issue with carrying capacity, given that every invention weighs a number of spells equal to its base spell level, at least with artificers with a low strength.

i didn't even consider this. in light of what i just realized (i.e. that your archetype spells are always prepared), that could actually be significantly bigger of an issue then i thought.
edit: i did the math - your archetype spells, if you have all of them, total to 30 pounds (1+1+2+2+3+3+4+4+5+5=2+4+6+8+10=10+10+10 - by the way, very clean math here, thanks lads), and your base spells can be a maximum of 30 pounds (5*6), meaning your spells could theoretically weigh you down 60 pounds. ouch.

 

[VenerableBede]

that could actually be significantly bigger of an issue then i thought

It isn't helped by the fact that, for spells that require a spell focus, you need to hold an additional bulky item, being tools of some sort.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

It isn't helped by the fact that, for spells that require a spell focus, you need to hold an additional bulky item, being tools of some sort.

being able to use an infusion as a spell focus mitigates that a bit, but yeah, it's a pretty rough deal. though being able to have 16 spells at 18th level and the chance to never run out of them (however slim)...yeah, i think that's worth the deal.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Spells: I would love to see the Arcane Muscles cantrip added so I can hulk out long before I get my Rage of the Meek.

 

[Faolyn]

so...i was going to agree with you, and i was going to elaborate...and then i went through the archetype spells again.
and then i realized, with the way they're phrased, your archetype spells are always prepared, in addition to your class spells.
you get 10 spells overall from each archetype (over several levels, of course) - which means you get more prepared spells from your archetype then your class, as well.

Ah-ha, you're right! That makes having to give up inventions to create pet modifications a little better, because at 3rd level you can have up to four inventions, not two, so you're not going to be completely spellless if you decide to give some abilities to your pet.

(Although I do wish you could create beast constructs as well as humanoid ones. I'd allow it.)

i...now understand why these archetypes use your spell inventions for the modifications. i am now convinced the artificer...might be one of the best casters in a5e if this isn't changed.

At 20th level, you could have up to 16 5th-level spells (or spells cast with a 5th-level slot) and four cantrips, and could effectively cast them forever if you didn't roll a 1 on the Fizzle Die. I think they're counting on people spending slots on their vehicles and pets--and that definitely will happen. But that means the Bombardier probably needs something to spend those inventions on as well.

Now, a 20th-level wizard has 22 spell slots (out of 25 spells that are prepared, assuming Int 20) and five cantrips, plus three free 1/day signature spells, plus 10 additional spell slot levels from Arcane Recovery, plus as many free first-level spells they want from True Magician, plus as many ritual spells as they want.

So... I'm not sure the artificer is actually the best caster. But they are very good, especially the Bombardier who doesn't need to spend inventions on archetype abilities.

 

[Faolyn]

edit: i did the math - your archetype spells, if you have all of them, total to 30 pounds (1+1+2+2+3+3+4+4+5+5=2+4+6+8+10=10+10+10 - by the way, very clean math here, thanks lads), and your base spells can be a maximum of 30 pounds (5*6), meaning your spells could theoretically weigh you down 60 pounds. ouch.

This actually doesn't bother me so much because you don't have spells, you have magitech devices that should weigh something. This is why you get hirelings or your pets to carry your stuff for you.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Your device fizzles if you roll the spell level you are casting or less on your fizzle die, not just on a 1, so your spells fizzles about 62% if you are casting a 5th level spell.