Gate Pass Gazette Playtest the ARTIFICER (Kickstarter backers only)

[xiphumor]

It suddenly occurs to me that 2nd level spell scrolls are considered common items, and there’s no rule that says you have to know a spell to create a scroll for it. Pick 3 2nd level spells for schematics and infuse them onto whatever paper is lying around. Sure, they take a DC 12 check to use at first, but that’s not bad.

 

[noodohs]

Overall, I really like the core artificer class in LU, but I find the archetypes to all be pretty lackluster and, unfortunately, that means there's not much reason for me to want to play an artificer. I'll get to that in a minute, but for the core class I do think there's a bit of a problem in that it is trying to do what O5e did and make the artificer both an inventor and an alchemist and I really don't think that makes a lot of sense. One is a chemist, the other is an engineer. PF2e's idea of splitting into two classes made more sense to me, in which case the bombardier fits in as an alchemist archetype instead. All of the alchemical stuff that is currently part of the artificer would move over, too, but the end result is that each class can fill their niche better with more unique features instead of trying to cram so much into one class. Maybe that's just me, though. I still like the core concept, though, especially spell inventions. Having said that, on to nit picks:

• With spell inventions, it says that you need both the spell invention and your tools (or an infused item) to use as a focus to cast spells. This means that you basically cannot cast spells unless you have two hands free, so you'd be unable to, say, wield a weapon and cast a spell unless that weapon happens to be infused (which you can't do at 1st level). Seems to me that the invention ought to be enough.
• Spell inventions weigh 1 lb per spell level, but you could make one for a 1st-level spell and cast it at a higher level, effectively having a 2nd-level spell that weighs less. I dunno, the weight requirement just seems so arbitrary and unnecessary.
• At higher levels, you can give your spell invention to someone else to cast it. Does the spell use your stats or theirs?
• For tactical chemistry, do I just make these things out of thin air or do I need some material components? If it's the latter, what materials do I need for each one?
• The schematic book is a neat idea, but as someone else mentioned, I think the availability of schematics needs to be fleshed out for it to work well. A wizard gets to add spells every level, but the only way to add schematics is to either find them or successfully reverse engineer a magic item. Depending on the setting/narrator, you could end up with 5 schematics or 20. Your infusions also depend on the availability of schematics, so I really think there should be some sort of every x levels you can add some number of schematics for free thing.
• Speaking of infusions, the infusion recharge feature allows me to sacrifice an infusion use, but does it only work if I have an unused infusion or can I give up an infusion on an item to use the feature?
• For trinket master, I assume I can only work on one item per long rest, but maybe it would be best to spell it out (unless it is already spelled out in the general crafting rules).
• As others have mentioned, Laboratory of the Master is a neat ability, but it happens way too late to be useful and even then it is mostly only helpful while you are hanging out in your lab. It has almost no utility while actually adventuring, so it's unfortunately kind of a lame capstone (sorry).
• For Modern Comforts, I assume that when you repurpose the spell invention, you lose the use of it for that period of rest, but do you get it back in the morning?
• I have mixed feelings about the archetype spell lists. At least a handful of the spells on these lists are already artificer spells, so the only difference is that you get it in addition to your other spells. It's also not clear here, but I get the impression that these are not "always prepared" as some have suggested, they are optionally prepared in addition to your other spells, but that leads us to...
• The Engineer and Stitcher. I really don't like that you have to give up spells for modifications. Considering that your spells are only guaranteed to work once per day, you could, with bad luck, end up with one or two cool modifications and one spell for an entire day (depending on your level, of course). I dunno, it just feels bad. By contrast, the Bombardier has no reason not to prepare their archetype spells every day, so the idea of them being optional doesn't even make sense for them.
• Maybe it's a nitpick, but the Engineer should really be called Mechanic. When I think engineer, I think of someone more like a scientist or an inventor, whereas this archetype is more of a hot rod car enthusiast. An engineer would be more akin to the Battle Smith O5e subclass.
• Speaking of which, none of the archetypes really have anything to do with inventing things, which, to me, is kind of the point of an artificer. Maybe I'm biased because I'm currently playing a Battle Smith in O5e and there is no really analogous archetype here, but it just feels like the archetypes miss the point. Bombardier is more of an alchemist and the Stitcher is more of a medical professional (maybe it could be an artificer/cleric multiclass feat tree?). The Mechanic (Engineer) is the only one that really seems to have anything to do with artifice and personally I don't really care for it, not because it's bad but it's just not my cup of tea.
• Specifically with the Stitcher, I think it's cool that they get resurrection, but I'm struggling to imagine any time I would want to use it within the specified parameters. Yes, I could bring back an ally, but only once and they'd become a monstrosity. I could bring back an enemy, but they don't have to listen to me. No one in town is going to want to come back a monster. Maybe I'm just missing something?

TL;DR: I really like the core concept, but I feel like the alchemical bits should be split off into another class and two of the three archetypes don't really feel like they have anything to do with artifice.

 

[Stalker0]

Could someone explain why they think this? The O5E artificer has the following total number of spells prepared assuming point buy and maxing int ASAP:

Level	O5E	A5E
3	6	4
5	10	7
10	16	10
14	20	13

Sure there is a difference but the gulf is not so wide that it seems problematic and if the difference is there to balance out the upgraded power and number of castings added by the fizzle die (not to mention fun and uniqueness it brings to the class) I think it's well worth it. After level ten the possibility of simply not running out of level one or possibly level two spells for the day seems very useful. Given you will always have 4 of those prepared you can spend your flexible prepared spells on some bigger guns with some gamble that you'll be able to cast them more than once. That seems like a fun as hell design to me.

I think the confusion here is that the LU artificier gets no bonus prepared spells from stats. Hence there prepared spells are much lower than you quoted. Here are the actual values.

Level	O5E	A5E
3	6	2
5	10	2
10	16	4
14	20	5

So its actually a hybrid blend of the 3.5 wizard and sorcerer spellcasting models:

• You get a large number of slots, but very limited spells known.
• They actually "prep" spels most similar to a 3.5 wizard. The artificier does not have "2 spells and 10 slots" like most 5e casters would. They instead have "5 slots dedicated to 1 specific spell" and "5 slots dedicated to a second specific spell".... aka they cannot use their slots freely for any spell like other 5e casters can. This is how a 3.5 wizard works (kind of), each spell slot is dedicated to a specific spell.

 

[WanderingMystic]

I think the confusion here is that the LU artificier gets no bonus prepared spells from stats. Hence there prepared spells are much lower than you quoted. Here are the actual values.

Level	O5E	A5E
3	6	2
5	10	2
10	16	4
14	20	5

So its actually a hybrid blend of the 3.5 wizard and sorcerer spellcasting models:

• You get a large number of slots, but very limited spells known.
• They actually "prep" spels most similar to a 3.5 wizard. The artificier does not have "2 spells and 10 slots" like most 5e casters would. They instead have "5 slots dedicated to 1 specific spell" and "5 slots dedicated to a second specific spell".... aka they cannot use their slots freely for any spell like other 5e casters can. This is how a 3.5 wizard works (kind of), each spell slot is dedicated to a specific spell.

You are forgetting that your bonus spells that you get from your archetype.

Level	Spell Inventions
3rd	4
6th	7
10th	10
14th	13
18th	16

This is actually how many spell Inventions you have access to.. now granted all of the ones you get from your archetype are fixed, and if you are using any manifestations then you are sacrificing spell inventions.

 

[Anselm]

You are forgetting that your bonus spells that you get from your archetype.

Level	Spell Inventions
3rd	4
6th	7
10th	10
14th	13
18th	16

This is actually how many spell Inventions you have access to.. now granted all of the ones you get from your archetype are fixed, and if you are using any manifestations then you are sacrificing spell inventions.

Yes this is where my numbers came from (and I included the same for O5E in my table). I understand how they are prepared and see a difference in number but not so much so that it feels completely "so low compared to other classes" particularly half casters and warlock. Herald would have the same as O5E artificer (potentially even fewer since strength would likely be maxed before charisma) and warlock has the same amount as A5E artificer at lvl 14. Both A5E warlock and A5E artificer have a different (and unique from each other) way of casting spells.

 

[Stalker0]

Yes this is where my numbers came from (and I included the same for O5E in my table). I understand how they are prepared and see a difference in number but not so much so that it feels completely "so low compared to other classes" particularly half casters and warlock. Herald would have the same as O5E artificer (potentially even fewer since strength would likely be maxed before charisma) and warlock has the same amount as A5E artificer at lvl 14. Both A5E warlock and A5E artificer have a different (and unique from each other) way of casting spells.

Ah you are quite correct, so yes the artificier does have a lot more spells prepared than it looks at first glance. Let me update some notes with that in mind.

 

[noodohs]

Now that the finalized version is out, it looks like there are only minor changes, so it is, unfortunately, still a dud for me. From a formatting perspective, seems odd to have the laboratory feature lumped in at the end of the spell list. The construct capstone feature is okay, but it's generally a worse companion than the O5e battle smith just gets and doesn't have to use up infusions for AND you don't get it until level 20, so that's kind of meh. I do like that they swapped modifications to using up infusions instead of spell inventions, but otherwise almost none of my questions/concerns were addressed, so... yeah. Really bummed about this one, was hoping for something better than O5e and I kinda feel like it's generally worse.

 

[Faolyn]

Now that the finalized version is out, it looks like there are only minor changes, so it is, unfortunately, still a dud for me. From a formatting perspective, seems odd to have the laboratory feature lumped in at the end of the spell list. The construct capstone feature is okay, but it's generally a worse companion than the O5e battle smith just gets and doesn't have to use up infusions for AND you don't get it until level 20, so that's kind of meh. I do like that they swapped modifications to using up infusions instead of spell inventions, but otherwise almost none of my questions/concerns were addressed, so... yeah. Really bummed about this one, was hoping for something better than O5e and I kinda feel like it's generally worse.

For the construct capstone, I would give it an Intelligence of at least 7 and the ability to make more than one of them.

 

[xiphumor]

It does suddenly occur to me that at 3rd level, you can develop the schematics for a Wand of Magic Missiles and potentially use all three infusions to cast three 7th level spells each day, and then just infuse new ones the next day.

 

[Stalker0]

Now that the finalized version is out, it looks like there are only minor changes, so it is, unfortunately, still a dud for me. From a formatting perspective, seems odd to have the laboratory feature lumped in at the end of the spell list. The construct capstone feature is okay, but it's generally a worse companion than the O5e battle smith just gets and doesn't have to use up infusions for AND you don't get it until level 20, so that's kind of meh. I do like that they swapped modifications to using up infusions instead of spell inventions, but otherwise almost none of my questions/concerns were addressed, so... yeah. Really bummed about this one, was hoping for something better than O5e and I kinda feel like it's generally worse.

I just took a look myself, I think your right that only very superficial changes were made.