Playtesters for a Holy Assassin Class?

[gamerprinter]

The cleric spells may still be necessary to follow story

I may re-think my lethal vs. non-lethal damage. The only reason I placed the sleep and paralyze, was to incorporate the Thieves capstone, but divided into three different abilities instead of one with a choice between the three. I might drop "sleep", but keep the paralyze. The stun and paralyze are other means to more easily invoke Sneak Attack and Coup de Grace. This also allows non-killing offensive attacks against guards and anyone not officially sanctioned for slaying, yet still an obstacle from the official assassination. They can still kill for self-defense, but slayings are on church orders only.

Also the Improved and Greater Grapple grant means to opponent losing Dex bonus on improved, while Greater Grapple: Pin makes opponent flat-footed. Working with another rogue or assassin, these too provide great Sneak Attack opportunities.

While I too like the Monk based concept. These assassins serve a temple as zealots, as well as the priesthood itself. I need to incorporate some levels of clerical spellcasting, so I placed them into the PrC. (Plus the cleric angle is a good excuse to give them better BAB and Saves)

The god, Cerene, is a lesser deity of death whose primary concern is the slaying of those living beings attempting to extend their mortality beyond natural means (including undeath). The priesthood also serves the community by providing burial rites and burial expenses to the poor. They also provide mercy killings upon request by those unable to pay for a visit to a proper healer or cleric, for suffering conditions of disease, injury or illness. They have a voice in local government and a measure of respect from the poorer classes of the city. They, however, keep their assassination missions secret from the general public.

They draw their adherents from appropriately aligned monks, rangers and rogues.

Its still worth some thought.

Thank you for your observations and ideas.

GP

 

[Xendria]

If you want to keep the cleric idea then make the spells like spell-like abilities that are usable x/day, like you did with Ethereal Jaunt. Another idea would be to give them all Orisons and then the ability to spontaneously cast cleric spells. Again though you'd have to drop the sneak attack bonuses, because otherwise you're going to have a rogue with cleric spells, which can be brutal. You could also have the old "increases spell casting by one level." So it makes the class more targeted towards multi-class clerics and paladins.

The reason why I suggest this is because if you noticed, Pathfinder got rid of PrC's giving spell casting to classes that didn't have it before the PrC.

Two more quick notes, the stun on sneak attack is REALLY powerful for a first level ability unless it has a fairly easy save. Second, allow them to make their attacks nonlethal without the negative this will allow them to basically knock out a guard without and issue.

 

[gamerprinter]

Compromise here?

I like giving them all Orisons, but agree with you in changing to a limited spell list as spell-like abilities - limiting to healing, neutralize poison, cure disease, and similar spells, as well as limited wards. I don't want to give rogues, assassins and monk adherents access to lethal spells, mind-affecting or anything else that would give them direct advantage in combat. The idea is these guys serve a church with a very uptight view on life extension, resurrection and the like. Healing you before you die, is fine, but once you cross over, you now belong to the gods - any measure of bringing you back to life is anaethma.

I don't expect the Temple of Cerene to have full clerics, and since the god is True Neutral himself, I don't see Paladins converting to this PrC.

I see your point on granting spell casting in a PrC to those classes that weren't spell casters (though Rangers are spell casters in a limited way), not being a Pathfinder design goal. Still the Temple of Cerene must seem, at least in a limited way served with their own priesthood.

I have to check on the pre-reqs for Arcane Trickster and Shadow Dancer, though the latter isn't a spellcaster per se, her shadow manipulation is rather spell-like.

Good points all, but I will probably allow spell-like's as a compromise, instead of true spell casting. But I want both Sneak Attack and limited spell use - it fits the flavor of the class, temple, god and product.

Not sure, but I could add a necessary single class dip as a cleric to qualify, though I don't care for class dipping in any case. I'll post again, when I know for sure.

Thanks, again.

GP

 

[gamerprinter]

Regarding Stunning Strike

I don't think the Stunning Strike is overpowered at all. Its a first level PrC ability which means you'll need the prerequisite base class level to qualify for the PrC.

Compare the Stunning Strike ability to a 1st level base class Monk's ability Stunning Fist, same save negates on both. Stunning Strike requires a successful Sneak Attack, which is even harder to do than a Monk's Stunning Fist. So I don't think its overpowered at all. The same goes for all the Special Strike effects at higher levels.

Just thought I'd point that out.

Right now, working on details for the Spell-like abilities still.

GP

 

[ruemere]

I think the class is ready for playtesting as it is. If you tune abilities too much, you may end up limiting options to characters.

I'd like to offer the following comments:
- Special attacks (Stunning, Paralysis, Sleep) should be alternative to straight damage (i.e. if you try to inflict condition, you do not inflict damage)
- Additional special attack ideas: Staggered 1d6 rounds (i.e. victim may take only a single standard action per round), Dazed 1 round
- Special attack DC: 10 + (Total character level)/2 + Dexterity modifier (this is to avoid situation where high level characters past final class level have laughable DCs for their special abilities)
- Staggered cleric progression is rather awkward. If you want to make them a spellcaster, how about granting them access to a single domain with 1:1 progression (i.e. you gain a level as if you were a cleric for the purpose of use of abilities or domain spells, stacks with already existing domain spell levels, gain one domain spell slot every second level) instead of allowing them simply casting spells
- Some nondetection ability is a must to avoid awkward situations caused by divinations
- Rope Trick... and Spider Climb... need I say more?

Otherwise, good stuff.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[gamerprinter]

Prestige class: temple assassin

Shahd'rah (temple assassin)
Prestige Class

Requirements:
Alignment: any non-good/non-evil neutral alignment
Skills: Disguise 2 ranks, Stealth 5 ranks
Special: devout obedience to high priest of Temple of Cerene

Skills: 6 + Intelligence modifier
Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Knowledge: Planes, Knowledge: Religion, Perception, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Use Magic Device

HD: d8, BAB: as Cleric Saves: as Cleric
Weapons/Armor: any simple and martial weapon, all light to medium armor, no shields

1st: Sneak Attack bonus 1d6, Stunning Strike - on a successful Sneak Attack, opponent is stunned for 1 round (Fort DC 10 + half character level + Wisdom modifier), Rope Trick (at will)

2nd: Cast Orisons as a 1st level Cleric, Improved Grapple, Poison Use

3rd: Sneak Attack bonus 2d6, Staggering Strike - on a successful Sneak Attack, opponent is staggered for 1d6 rounds (Fort DC 10 + half character level + Wisdom modifier), Improved Feint

4th: Stem Bleeding (Su) x 3/day - as Cure Light Wounds spell, Ethereal Jaunt x 1/day, Hidden Weapon (as Assassin ability)

5th: Sneak Attack bonus 3d6, Paralyzing Strike - on a successful Sneak Attack, opponent is paralyzed for 2d6 rounds (Fort DC 10 + half character level + Wisdom modifier), Greater Grapple (on a successful grapple attempt, opponent is automatically pinned, but you lose your bonus to Dexterity.)

6th: Wound Closure (Su) x 2/day - as Cure Moderate Wounds spell, Greater Feint

7th: Sneak Attack bonus 4d6, Ethereal Jaunt x 2/day.

8th: Combat Surgery (Su) x 1/day - as per Cure Serious Wounds spell, Death Strike - on a successful Sneak Attack, opponent is slain (Fort DC 10 + half character level + Wisdom modifier)

9th: Sneak Attack bonus 5d6, True Death (as per Assassin ability)

10th: Detoxify (Su) x 1/day - as per Neutralize Poison spell, Ethereal Jaunt x 3/day, Swift Coup de Grace (perform Coup de Grace as a swift action.)

How's this?

GP

 

[ruemere]

Much cleaner.

Two items:
- as I said, it would be good to make it clear that attack which inflicts condition does not deal Sneak Attack bonus damage
- as per grapple rules, successful grapple results in grappled condition (unless you choose to use a single limb for the purpose of grappling: -20 to grapple checks, you're free to act normally) and penalty to dexterity (not total loss of Dexterity bonus) - you may want to revise the line below to be more in line with Pathfinder and less confusing:
"Greater Grapple (on a successful grapple attempt, opponent is automatically pinned, but you lose your bonus to Dexterity.)" - this line does not contain information on how "grappled" condition penalty interacts with "bonus loss", as the former is a relative penalty while the latter is an absolute penalty.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[gamerprinter]

Thanks for the help!

Thank you, sir (and everyone else who posted), I will make those changes and call this a done deal. I am sure I will post other base and prestige classes questions when the need comes up again.

Now I have to make a bunch of standard NPCs and standardized versions of my guild/temple of assassins for the base product. Any new classes, magic items and monsters, etc are bonus material provided free to subscribers of the productline I will be offering.

Just for information purposes my productline will be a series of mapped locations fully supported with appropriate (and new) content in the form of NPCs, monsters, traps, magic items, new equipment, ready to place in existing adventures and campaigns Pathfinder GMs can insert into their games. They won't be full modules, at least not for now. In addition to that there will be tips on using Assassins in any game, 50 plot hooks, prime motivators for assassins, how to run an effective assassin campaign - that sort of thing.

Besides myself, my co-publishers are Johnn Four of Roleplaying Tips Newsletter, and Mike Bourke of Game Mastery blog, so a couple bigger names with an unknown - me. I primarily create maps and illustrations for many RPG publishers. This is my effort to create a map based product as my own publication series. We have plans to create monthly products, followed by a compendium of sorts that include all the bonus materials (read as new stuff, like this Temple Assassin prestige class) at the end of the year. While it will be offered separately, subscribers get it for free.

Our ultimate goal will be to integrate each individual monthly product with each other through plot hooks, side organizations with their own locations that appear in one or more other products. Eventually I'm planning on building a complete world from the bottom up, with all said products as integral pieces.

I hope my plan of world domination succeeds.

Again, thanks everyone.

GP

 

[Herobizkit]

I would suggest looking into the Inquisitor base class as seen here - it's from the upcoming Advanced Player's Guide, still in playtesting stages. With a few tweaks, you might find what you're looking for.