Please explain ECL and Racial HD to me

[dreaded_beast]

I'm a bit confused about ECL, escpecially about Tieflings/Aasimar.

The 3.5 DMG states that if a creature has 1 HD or more, a level adjustment, and class levels, add all these together to get the ECL. For example, if the creature has 1 HD, +1 Level Adjustment, and 2 Rogue levels, the ECL is 4. The 3.5 DMG makes no mention of Racial HD.

If that is the case, the Tiefling/Aasimar (1 HD, +1 Level Adjustment) would be ECL 3 if it took a class level: 1 HD, +1 Level Adjustment, +1 Class Level.

However, when I read the description for the Tiefling/Aasimar in the FRCS and Races of Faerun, I think it only treats these creatures as ECL 2 if it took a class level: +1 Level Adjustment, +1 Class Level, equals ECL 2.

Why is the first HD not counted for the Tiefling/Aasimar, but counted for others?

Does racial HD have something to do with this?

And if a creature has 1 HD normally, does it have racial HD?

How do you determine if a creature has racial HD?

Why does the DMG calculate the Tieflilng/Aasimar as +1 HD, +1 Level Adjustment and + Class Levels, when FRCS/Races of Faerun does not?

Thanks!

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

The more "normal" races don't have racial HD. When they are presented in the MM (for example), they're actually presented as 1st-level warriors. That's what happens with Aasimars and Tieflings. Those 2 races have a Level adjustment of +1, though. So a 1st-level (any PC class) Aasimar has an effective character level of 2.

Let's take a Minotaur, for a different example. A minotaur has 6hd. In fact, a minotaur has 6 "minotaur" levels. If it were to take Barbarian levels on top of that, his 7th "level" would be his 1st barbarian level. He would in fact be a Minotaur6/Barbarian1. If that minotaur would happen to be a PC, then a +2 level adjustment should be added. So a Minotaur 1st level barbarian is in effect the "same" as a 9th level character (6 racial HD, 1 barbarian level, 2 level adjustment). This minotaur PC should start with the XP and appropriate gold for a 9th level character, and he'll need as much XP to reach his 2nd barbarian level as the human fighter will need to go up from 9th to 10th level (ie, 9000XP more).

Hope this helps.

AR

 

[Pax]

Anything that has only one hit die in it's MM (or equivalent) entry, can replace that hit die with their first class level.

 

[dreaded_beast]

Anything that has only one hit die in it's MM (or equivalent) entry, can replace that hit die with their first class level.

Cool. Where is this information found?

 

[AGGEMAM]

The SRD (monster section) perhaps

Humanoids and Class Levels: Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.

 

[Thanee]

I think you misread something there.

AFAIK it says, that you add up racial HD only if they are greater than 1.

So with a 1 HD race you have ECL = LA + Class Levels and only with a race with 2+ HD you do as you have written above.

Of course, this is purely from memory, so I cannot tell you where to find it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[AGGEMAM]

Of course, this is purely from memory, so I cannot tell you where to find it.

Maybe it's time you made the SRD one of your Favorites then

Here's a lot of SRDs which each it's own flavour.

 

[dreaded_beast]

Cool. Here is where it gets confusing for me.

Straight from the 3.5 DMG, bottom of 172 to top of 173 (underneath the tables):

"A monster with Hit Dice of 1 or less, a level adjustment, and class levels adds its class levels, Hit Dice, and level adjustment together when referring to Table 3-2. For instance, suppose a monster with 1 Hit Die and a +1 level adjustment has two levels of rogue. Its ECL is 4 (2 class levels +1 Hit Die +1 level adjustment). In order to gain another class level, it needs a total of 10,000 XP."

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, that must be wrong (it's precisely the same calculation as for monsters with 2+ HD - kinda pointless to make the distinction, eh?).

0-1 HD, LA, CL --> LA + CL
2+ HD, LA, CL --> HD + LA + CL

The part above the Experience paragraph (about Skills & Feats) also makes clear, that monsters with only 1 HD are treated just like characters with their first class level.

Bye
Thanee