Please Help: Diplomacy Checks, Dispel Magic

[Elder-Basilisk]

Exactly. And if you go the whole 9 yards with seeming, imp invis, etc. . . . well you were strong enough to defeat the ogres (or whatever) quite handily several adventures ago. Your enemies are most likely strong enough to handle them without too much trouble either. And, if they can do that then the rounds and spell slots you spent on Seeming, etc. to make the trick work might have been better spent on chain lightning, cone of cold or enervation. . . .

The problems I see with the ogres is: They will probably remember what you did to them and attack you.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And, if they can do that then the rounds and spell slots you spent on Seeming, etc. to make the trick work might have been better spent on chain lightning, cone of cold or enervation. . . .

That's a silly idea.

Chain Lightning doesn't make the ogre bomb work any better!

-Hyp.

 

[Number47]

Demons want to chew on mortals, sure. But they don't want to die trying it. A party that has enough force to fight demons has enough force to negotiate with them. It might simply be an agreement that both groups back off for today until they are ready to engage in battle on a more fortuitous day. But the demons certainly aren't going to let you pass the room they're guarding, steal the treasure, smash the altar, etc. A diplomacy check should allow you to postpone a hostile encounter. It would be darn difficult to overcome an encounter that is naturally hostile.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A party that has enough force to fight demons has enough force to negotiate with them. It might simply be an agreement that both groups back off for today until they are ready to engage in battle on a more fortuitous day.

Um.

Making a deal with a devil requires lawyerish precision and care.

Making a deal with a demon requires living in a happy dream world where everyone is nice and keeps their promises

If a demon keeps a bargain, he gets a sad-face stamp on his hand from Demogorgon.

-Hyp.

 

[Bhaal]

I like the ogre bomb idea, regardless of how badly it may backfire.

Be glad your player hasn't thought of this one: Buy/obtain ballista bolts, have a spellcaster cast shrink item on them, do this shorly before you know combat is coming (an extended shrink helps). In combat, put ballista bolt in crossbow & shoot. If it hits its mark and sticks, give the command word (or dispel) to bring the bolt back to its original size. Watch DM plot dirty revenge .

 

[Hypersmurf]

Be glad your player hasn't thought of this one: Buy/obtain ballista bolts, have a spellcaster cast shrink item on them, do this shorly before you know combat is coming (an extended shrink helps).

With a duration of one day/level, it's not a big problem...

If it hits its mark and sticks...

Now point to the mechanic for "and sticks"...

-Hyp.

 

[Al]

Diplomacy in Combat

Technically, Diplomacy could work in combat, if and only if the combatants are willing to listen (and even then, probably at a circumstance penalty).

Most combats, you simply charge (sneak attack/hurl fireball) upon seeing the enemies. There is rarely much time to trade banter (exc: BBEGs/PCs can *always* make a cinematic climactic speech) as the participants are more concerned with slaughtering the opposition than listening to what it has to say.

So Rule 0 in this situation is perfectly legitimate. Diplomacy is meant to be a social skill, not a combat tool.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

My best advice here: If you want to use Diplomacy in combat, be sure to be the first one to act from your group- get the Initiative, and DON`T LET THE ROGUE SNEAK ATTACK OR THE WIZARD THROW FIREBALLS!

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Pielorinho]

Here's how I see it. If you want to use diplomacy, you must have a credible carrot. If you want to use intimidate, you must have a credible stick.

Shut up, Hong. You know what I mean.

If you're facing demons, and you've got a great diplomacy rating, shouting, "Wait! I've got an offer!" might be enough to get them to pause in their attack if you roll really well. They'll ready actions to attack you if anyone attacks them, probably, and hear you out for one or more rounds.

If your offer is, "Let us pass, and I'll give you this shiny new bottlecap!" then no diplomacy check in the world is going to help you. If your offer is, "Let us pass, and I'll tell you the true name of your demon-lord's rival!" then you've got their attention. Talk with them, make another diplomacy roll. They get to make a diplomacy roll themselves to determine what constitutes a fair deal ("Nuh-uh. We let you pass, except that we get to eat the wizard's familiar, and you tell us the rival's name. --Okay, okay, shut up, Balthazar, plus we get to French-braid the dwarf's beard.") Then both sides can agree with the deal or not.

Same thing with intimidation, and here I can use an example from our game last night. I and my companions went charging into a room filled with a fighter, two ogres, and half a dozen humans. We dispatched a couple of their leaders handily -- but so many more soldiers were pouring into the room that we were soon outnumbered 8 to 1. An intimidate check here was damned near impossible, no matter how high my intimidate score was.

But three rounds later, we'd got the odds down to 2 to 1 against us, and when I, a tiny blood-soaked halfling, roared, "Run for your lives! A-ha-ha-ha!" my intimidate check was more successful.

All about the circumstance.

Daniel

 

[Tobold Hornblower]

Our main carrot is that we won't slaughter them all. Heh, we do often offer some gold with that.

We have a well armored Bard that's maxed Diplomacy. Many of our encounters begin with her knocking on the door after the rest of us have taken cover and readied actions to shoot whatever answers the door, if the Bard jumps out of the way, suddenly.

...I want to avoid the PC attempting a Dip check any time he comes across intelligent, hostile beings.

RJ, we talk our way past many encounters. It's fun. Don't nerf the diplomat! Use the table. It takes high charisma, lots of skill points, and good circumstances, to make it work.

Is there anything, mind you - in the rules, that would not require me to simply Rule 0 that some creatures cannot be swayed by Diplomacy checks, despite the information within the Core Rules.

Sure. Use circumstance modifiers. -2 for this. -2 for that...

If the baddies surprise the party and attack, there's no chance for diplomacy to take place, at least not until the party has put a hurtin' on them. If you really want the party to fight a given battle, just make sure the baddy is particularly alert and quick on the draw.

Also, the ongoing antagonist, who's stalked the party planning to revenge the death of his brother, is NOT going to be talked out of anything. No need to roll.

But let the party talk its way past a gang of baddies, if they get the rolls. Even demons may prefer to allow a short trespass on their turf, rather than risk combat. And the party may find that talking your way past is not as safe as eliminating the threat--those demons may make different calculations when the badly beat-up party is retreating through their territory.