Please rate Extra Smiting

[smetzger]

Extra Smiting [Special]
You can make more smite attacks.
Prerequisites: Class level 4+, smite ability.
Benefit: When you take this feat, you gain one additional attempt to smite per day. Use whatever smite ability you have (for example, that of a paladin, a holy
liberator, or a cleric with the Destruction domain). You can take this feat multiple times. DoF p. 20

 

[Darklone]

Love it. Though I have to say, Spirited Charge is nearly a prerequisite for it

 

[reapersaurus]

3 problems with Extra Smiting:

1) It's only one extra simte per day. Extra Rage is 2 times per day, Extra Music (S&S) is 3 more times per day, and each of those lasts for awhile.

2) It only is good for one attack. Further, it is only against a limited opponent: only Evil. (could easily be wasted, since it's kind of hard to Detect Evil in combat)

3) It's effectiveness is tied to a high CHA bonus AND a high Paladin level.

Smiting is the most overrated class ability in the game, bar none.
People think that it's a powerful weapon : it's only good for one shot, and that can only be used in limited situations, and really isn't all that good for most characters anyway.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I agree that Smite is overrated, presumably because of its great smackdown potential on paper.

While I think that reapersaurus makes some excellent points and I have great respect for his opinions regarding paladins, I will disagree and give this feat a '6'.

The big variable is how often you are fighting evil targets. Paladins look rather weak against other threats, and not just because of the loss of Smite. I will make the assumption you are usually fighting evil creatures, because the paladin will seek out such threats.

In a typical day fighting evil, a Smite is more valuable than Weapon Focus IMO. It has very obvious synergy with Bless Weapon and Holy Weapon.

Slight hijack...

My only real complaint is not this feat, but the paladin class itself. Paladins (and Rangers) are somewhat frontloaded. While I think it is a fair deal for levels 1-10, their gains in ability are rather anemic at the higher levels. To my mind the obvious thing to do is give the paladin more smites per day at those high levels. So my complaint is not that with this feat, but that the paladin shouldn't really need to buy it with a precious feat slot.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'll put this one at 4. It can be useful. However, not too useful.

At high levels, smites may turn the tide of battles but I've yet to see that at low levels. Smite Evil, or the destruction domain power just aren't as useful as Rage, for instance.

One extra smite per day just isn't that special. Two would be good. Three would start to make this feat a real contender.

The other problem is that paladins and clerics with the destruction domain (the two core classes which could use this feat) are both rather poor in terms of feats so the opportunity cost of taking this feat is higher than it is for a feat that is also useful to fighters. Most paladins and clerics won't have too many feats. Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Power Attack, Cleave, Divine Might, Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack, and Spirited Charge don't leave any free feats for a human paladin so if there's another feat he's going to select, it ought to be at least comparable to those feats. A cleric with the destruction domain has even more competition--spell penetration, spell focus, empower spell, extend spell, persistent spell. Extra smiting just doesn't measure up to the competition.

 

[Celebrim]

"My only real complaint is not this feat, but the paladin class itself. Paladins (and Rangers) are somewhat frontloaded. While I think it is a fair deal for levels 1-10, their gains in ability are rather anemic at the higher levels. To my mind the obvious thing to do is give the paladin more smites per day at those high levels. So my complaint is not that with this feat, but that the paladin shouldn't really need to buy it with a precious feat slot."

Excellent idea. I'd always been bothered by the front loading of Paladins and Rangers, but had never had a satisfactory solution. I'd also thought that maybe the designers overcompensated for the munchiness of the two classes in earlier editions. Certainly Paladins and Rangers have proved quite scarce in games I've DMed. I'd considered giving Paladins three or four bonus feats, (similar to a rogue) at high levels, but this seemed overcompensation because Paladin is already a good class. But giving Paladins Extra Smiting at say 10th and 20th level is perfect.

 

[Stalker0]

I have also thought palys should get extra smites at higher levels. That being said, I think extra smiting is a decent feat for a high level paladin. By that time, your smite damage is +15-20, which is quite nice. Adding an extra 15-20 on top of that can really make a diff against those big baddies, so by these levels it could be worth it. Before that, however, smiting is not strong enough to warrant a feat for it over other feats.

I think the reason WOTC made it 1 extra smite per day is because of its abuse potential. I mean, when your a 10th level paladin, an extra +10 to damage for one blow is nothing really. But if extra smite gave 2 smites per day, then your talking +30 dmg per day. +50, +70. That starts to add up.

 

[Celebrim]

Stalker0: I beg to differ. By the time you reach 15th level, an extra 15 or 30 damage per day is hardly abusive. Many of your foes will have 200 or more hit points. Hardly any will have much below 100, and if they do, they probably are one of many 'thugs'. Is the extra damage highly useful for taking down that uber-villian at the end of the day? Sure. But it is hardly game breaking. If the uber villian has so few h.p. that 15 or 30 damage is a significant percentage of thier health, then the uber-villian has probably lost the battle if the PC's engage them in toe to toe combat to begin with.

Which is why this feat only got a 2 from me. On a day to day basis, we are talking like getting the equivalent of one extra attack or less - and then only if an appropriate evil foe presents itself. At best you are turning your one shot smackdown wonder into a two shot smackdown wonder.

 

[shilsen]

I voted a "3". My group house-ruled Extra Smiting to provide 2 extra smites per day instead of one, and it's hardly overpowered. Plus, it keeps it nicely balanced with Extra Rage and Extra Wild Shape.

 

[reapersaurus]

I'm fairly confident that Paladins will be geting more Smites at higher levels if they revisit the core classes even slightly in 3.5E.

Almost everyone agrees that they need it, and it fills the blatant whole at high-level paladins (one spell: Holy Sword, doesn't make 10 levels of paladin interesting.)

From the link in my sig, here's my Paladin House Rules:

The Paladin's and Ranger's spell progression is really whacked. It makes no sense that at 4th level, they get BOTH 0 and 1st level spells all of a sudden, AND that the 0 level spells are not separated from the 1st level spells.
In addition, Paladin's and Ranger's caster level is not considered ½.
Here is the corrected spell progression: (taken from J on the ENBoards forum)
Daily spells per level for Paladins and Rangers
L 0 1 2 3 4
1 - - - - -
2 0 - - - -
3 1 - - - -
4 1 0 - - -
5 2 0 - - -
6 2 1 - - -
7 2 1 0 - -
8 3 2 0 - -
9 3 2 1 - -
10 3 2 1 0 -
11 3 2 2 0 -
12 3 2 2 1 -
13 3 2 2 1 0
14 3 2 2 2 0
15 3 2 2 2 1
16 3 3 2 2 1
17 3 3 3 2 1
18 3 3 3 2 2
19 3 3 3 3 2
20 3 3 3 3 3
A paladin’s 0-level spells include: Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, Disrupt Undead, Guidance, Light, Resistance, Virtue.
A ranger’s 0-level spells include: Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, Endure Elements, Know Direction, Light, Mending, Resistance.

In addition, a Paladin's spell list should be expanded (for example, there are only FIVE 2nd level Paladin spells!). When compared to a Holy Liberator (from Defenders of the Faith, or DotF)), some spells make sense to be added:
1st level: Remove Fear
2nd level: Aid, Bull's Strength, Cure Moderate Wounds, Eagle's Splendor
3rd level: Cure Serious Wounds, Remove Curse
4th level: Cure Critical Wounds

Paladins NEED more smiting power like Ricky Martin needs another hit: BAD! How the heck does ONE smite per day strike fear into the hearts of demons? It's like saying you're armed to the teeth to fight evil when you only have one bullet in the clip.
Paladins get an extra smite per day at 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th levels.
Remember, smite is only good for ONE attack. Not even for a whole round's attacks.
A Paladin's mount is a Magical Beast. They should progress as a Magical Beast.
If your mount is Celestial, than when the paladin goes up in level, the mount advances as a Celestial.