Please rate Eyes in the Back of Your Head

[Wolf72]

This feat isn't uncanny dodge. All it does is eliminate the +2 bonus that flanking attackers have to hit you; it doesn't do anything else.

... and that would mean that sneak attacks would still potentially work ... just not at a +2, right?

 

[Piratecat]

Right.

 

[jontherev]

Salutations,

This feet has been a write off in our group.

As I look at it, I think it is too weak for any use. I can't see it ever being taken. Anyone with that wis is most likely a caster- and would be better off taking a feat that helped their magic.

So, there are three options-

1) If one raises the BAB and get rid of the Wis requirement, then the feat is probably fine the way it is written.

2) If one raises the BAB and keeps the Wis requirement, then make the feat change to: opponents who flank a character with this feat gain no benefit from flanking(bonus to hit, sneak attacks, etc). Keep the bit about it only working while not denied their dex.

Since the second proposal is rather powerful, I think the BAB requirement should be at least around 13+

3) If one keeps the BAB requirement and gets rid of the Wis requirement, then you could change the feat to the following: at the beginning of each combat round, a character with this feat may select a number of people equal to their Wis bonus that will not receive any bonus to hit gained from flanking this character for the rest of the round.

I like #2 just because there are so few high level feat for combat, but I would go for #3. It is geared for combatants and rewards a decent wisdom.

Respectfully submitted
FD

Just realize the if you allow #2, you are making clerics that much more powerful, for I can't see ANY clerics turning down this feat. As if clerics need any help being more powerful.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Just realize the if you allow #2, you are making clerics that much more powerful, for I can't see ANY clerics turning down this feat. As if clerics need any help being more powerful.

Salutations,

Well, with a BAB 13 requirement, they would need to be 18th lvl.

And I don't prescribe to the opinion that clerics are more powerful.

FD

 

[novyet]

It's really not of any practical use to take this feat. If it's really in character to take it then go for it, but other than that....

 

[jontherev]

Salutations,

This feet has been a write off in our group.

As I look at it, I think it is too weak for any use. I can't see it ever being taken. Anyone with that wis is most likely a caster- and would be better off taking a feat that helped their magic.

I meant to mention this before, but forgot. This feat is in the fighter/monk splatbook. Wisdom is the main attribute for monks. Monks are melee combatants primarily, not spellcasters. Since monks do not get uncanny dodge, this feat is perfectly acceptable for them. If you play a monk who likes to wade into a group of enemies (WHIRLWIND!), this feat could be quite handy...even better than Dodge. If you want to play a fighter with uncanny dodge, play a barbarian or multiclass. Every feat doesn't have to be equally powerful or equally accessible to every class.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

I meant to mention this before, but forgot. This feat is in the fighter/monk splatbook. Wisdom is the main attribute for monks. Monks are melee combatants primarily, not spellcasters.

Granted, but monks need a wide variety of decent stats to be effective. We use a point buy system, and a super high wisdom would leave a very weak monk.

Since monks do not get uncanny dodge, this feat is perfectly acceptable for them.

If the requirement was not a 19+ wisdom, then I would agree with you. The requirement is too high for such a tiny bonus.

Monks don't have a lot of feats to throw around, especially if you want them to..

If you play a monk who likes to wade into a group of enemies (WHIRLWIND!), this feat could be quite handy...even better than Dodge.

No, dodge does not have a ridiculous requirement and leads to mobility- which is great for your plan.

EitBoYH leads to nothing.

If you want to play a fighter with uncanny dodge, play a barbarian or multiclass.

If you want to play a monk with uncanny dodge, then take a couple levels of rogue first.

Every feat doesn't have to be equally powerful or equally accessible to every class.

I agree, but the feat's power has to make sense for its requirements and/or the chain to which it belongs.

FD

 

[jontherev]

Granted, but monks need a wide variety of decent stats to be effective. We use a point buy system, and a super high wisdom would leave a very weak monk.

Exactly right, but not everyone uses a point buy system. My monk had a 19 wisdom at 4th level. I rolled well. I still say wisdom is the best attribute for monks, so if you roll a 17 or 18 or get a periapt of wisdom, a 19 is quite simple to achieve. Monks are already screwed by the lower point buy systems anyways, so I wouldn't play one probably. However, I agree that this feat is not that great (but it doesn't have to be...like I said, it's obviously geared towards monks). Therefore, as a monk, I wouldn't take the feat until later on, say level 15+. I might not take it at all, but that's not to say it is worthless.

If the requirement was not a 19+ wisdom, then I would agree with you. The requirement is too high for such a tiny bonus.

As I said above, using a higher point buy system (essential for balancing monks imo) or rolling a 16+ makes this requirement fairly easy for monks to achieve by mid-level. For other classes, it may not be that feasible, and that's acceptable to me.

Monks don't have a lot of feats to throw around, especially if you want them to..

...to what? That's why I said I wouldn't take it until higher level, as a personal choice. All classes have this problem except fighters and wizards.

No, dodge does not have a ridiculous requirement and leads to mobility- which is great for your plan.

EitBoYH leads to nothing.

So? Mobility is a feat I would never take as long as I have tumble. I also think Spring Attack is WAY overated for monks. Dodge has a low prereq because it is the beginning of a LONG chain. It HAS to have a low prereq. This is not the only feat that isn't part of a feat chain.

If you want to play a monk with uncanny dodge, then take a couple levels of rogue first.

You mean 6 levels of rogue? Monks don't multiclass well either unless you are in FR.

I agree, but the feat's power has to make sense for its requirements and/or the chain to which it belongs.

FD

Agreed.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

...to what?

Heh, I should have been more clear about that, I was referring to you suggesting a monk could get EitBoYH for whirlwind.

I apologize for being confusing.

Exactly right, but not everyone uses a point buy system.

I never said that everyone does use a point system. I started my original post about how this has been written off by my group.

I don't quite see the point in classifying every statements as an opinion. Especially in a discussion asking out opinions on a feet.

So? Mobility is a feat I would never take as long as I have tumble. I also think Spring Attack is WAY overated for monks.

You have a kind dm if they are using Tumble as written- it must be nice to be able to tumble by great wyrms with ease.

Dodge has a low prereq because it is the beginning of a LONG chain.

And it has a rather weak power- just a notch below EitBoYH. (Someone should put a limit on the number of words that can be used in a feat's name, heh.)

You mean 6 levels of rogue? Monks don't multiclass well either unless you are in FR.

You can always take thief levels before joining the monostary.

For other classes, it may not be that feasible, and that's acceptable to me.

I don't believe every feat should be easily accessable to every character, but if they want a low ability feat for monks- then there are better ways to do it then put on a stupid requirement.

Therefore, as a monk, I wouldn't take the feat until later on, say level 15+. I might not take it at all, but that's not to say it is worthless.

Really? Wow. I would never consider it.. especially at that level. There are better feats out there.

At that level, a monk should not even be concerned with the +2 to hit from flanking.

I would rather take one of the * Toughness feats from MotW, a save boosting feat, or better yet one of the monk oriented feats in OA.

It would be a shame that one of my last feats, of the few feats I might have, would be wasted on this pitiful feat. Granted, that is a general problem with the core rule books- no good high level combat feats.

all IMO- of course. heh.

Respectfully submitted
FD

 

[jontherev]

Heh, I should have been more clear about that, I was referring to you suggesting a monk could get EitBoYH for whirlwind.

I apologize for being confusing.

Well, point taken. A human monk with this feat and WWA would only have like 2 feats left. Then again, I think WWA is a waste too because of the feat prereq. For those who don't though, it does complement better than dodge does.

I never said that everyone does use a point system. I started my original post about how this has been written off by my group.

I don't quite see the point in classifying every statements as an opinion. Especially in a discussion asking out opinions on a feet.

I also never said you said that. However, I feel that when giving an opinion on how useful a feat is, one should consider the game as a whole, rather than one's own house rules or ways of character generation (since there are different rules on that). That way your opinion is as unbiased as possible. What might be under/overbalanced in your campaign, might not be in many others.

You have a kind dm if they are using Tumble as written- it must be nice to be able to tumble by great wyrms with ease.

We don't like many house rules. It makes the game run smoother and less complicated. If you want my opinion on why I think Tumble is fine as is, search for past threads on the topic. That is, IF they still exist. AND if search function even works...

And it has a rather weak power- just a notch below EitBoYH. (Someone should put a limit on the number of words that can be used in a feat's name, heh.)

Agreed.

You can always take thief levels before joining the monostary.

Right, but my main point was it takes 6 levels, not a "couple". Huge difference.

I don't believe every feat should be easily accessable to every character, but if they want a low ability feat for monks- then there are better ways to do it then put on a stupid requirement.

Personally, I don't like class-only feats for the most part. But, they probably could've lowered the wisdom prereq, given that it's not that powerful. Maybe Wis 15+?

Really? Wow. I would never consider it.. especially at that level. There are better feats out there.

At that level, a monk should not even be concerned with the +2 to hit from flanking.

True, there are better feats, but monks have a hard time improving their AC after mid level. They can't buy armor or shields, so they are basically stuck with the ring of protection/mage armor/wisdom/dex/etc. This is another option to help out, and at higher level, it could mean the difference between a dead monk, and an almost dead monk.

I would rather take one of the * Toughness feats from MotW, a save boosting feat, or better yet one of the monk oriented feats in OA.

It would be a shame that one of my last feats, of the few feats I might have, would be wasted on this pitiful feat. Granted, that is a general problem with the core rule books- no good high level combat feats.

all IMO- of course. heh.

Respectfully submitted
FD

I agree, I just like to argue. Er, I mean discuss. Except, I don't think it's pitiful...just weaker than a lot of other feats. Dirty Fighting? Now, THERE'S a pitiful feat.