Please rate Gladiator

[smetzger]

Gladiator - Sword and Fist p.21
Requirements: BAB +5, Perform 4 ranks or Intimidate 4 ranks, at least two feats from list of fighter bonus feats
Class Features: Improved Feint, Study Opponent, Exhaust Opponent, Roar of the Crowd, Improved Coup De Grace, Posion Use, Make Them Bleed, The Crowd Goes Wild

So, rate it on:
1) How well it stacks up with core classes.
2) How often a PC or NPC will go with this class.
3) How 'fun' it is to play this class and how much this class adds to the game.
Each is worth 3 points(0 to 3), with an additional point that you could add for Misc. reasons.

 

[Celebrim]

Yet another full BAB 'fighter subclass' with a bunch of class abilities that would probably be more interesting as feats.

 

[smetzger]

Yet another full BAB 'fighter subclass' with a bunch of class abilities that would probably be more interesting as feats.

I agree. So, much more could be done w/ feats instead of prestige classes. Especially for PCs. For NPCs there is some merit becuase it makes it easier for the DM to create an NPC with a particular 'focus'.

 

[Archer]

The difference between feats and class abilities is that you only get feats every 3 levels but you get class abilities at every level and sometime more than one.

Gladiator should have been condensed into a 5 level prestige class. It has a narrow focus. I'm not sure it it would be overpowered if condensed into a 3 level prestige class. Rogues might be slightly tempted to dip in for better BAB and improved feint but then they would lose one of their excellent thief abilities at level 10+

 

[Celebrim]

The difference between feats and class abilities is that you only get feats every 3 levels but you get class abilities at every level and sometime more than one.

I know this was unintentional, but I've never heard a more resounding and open admission of everything I hate about PrC's than that.

Classses which gain the equivalent of a bonus combat feat better than every other round (the rate that fighter's gain them) and have full fighter BAB progression and often other benefits (better saving throws or better skill lists) simply obselete the fighter. For classes like 'Gladiator' in which by and large the feats aren't overly powerful or perhaps even subpar, that is only philosophically bad. After all, wouldn't it be more elegant condense the Gladiator class abilities into 6 or so fighter feats and do away with the need for a special class altogether? Wouldn't it be better (assuming we could balance all the powers) to let characters pick and choose the abilities appropriate to thier character concept, rather than forcing characters into a narrow sterotype of what a 'gladiator' should be or who should have access to particular combat abilities? Isn't a 'gladiator' just a particular profession of a fighter, and aren't the skills of a 'gladiator' just a particular focus of general combat skills? If we already have a class that is supposed to be a master of combat with weapons and which can specialize in specific techniques (via feat selection), why do we need a subclass?

Frankly, I think it is silly to condense all those abilities down to a five level class. Two of them - improved feint and improved coup de gras - are essentially feats. And the remaining six, while not overly powerful, are at least worth 'half feats' or better. A three level class is right out. How many feats could you normally get in 5 levels? In three levels? Do that to every fighter PrC and you'll basically encourage everyone to never take fighter beyond the 4th level.

 

[Trellian]

The gladiator is probably a great prestige class to take if you are running an almost purely gladiator campaign. You could also take the Gladiator class from KoK player's guide. Many of the gladiator's special abilities only come into play if you have a crowd, and how often does that happen in your standard dungeon crawl? And no, the other pcs do not qualify as a crowd

 

[Archer]

Improved feint is only worth a whole feat to a rogue and things like quicker than the eye are better. Improved coup de gras isn't even a quarter feat. Most of the other abilities are 1/10 feats except make them bleed which is almost worth a whole feat but is inferior to weapon specialization. All the abilities of the gladiator would rate 2-4 which is the never take range for feats if you follow the polls.

5 level prestige classes tend to really penalize any non-fighter BAB class (not the case here but something to note) and have poor saves overall since you miss the +1 to every save at level 6. If you were 5th level and took 5 levels of gladiator your saves would be +8,+2,+2 or one point worse on average than a 10th level fighter and would have 2 less feats. The gladiatior has no burdensome entry requirements however which is almost always the hallmark of a powerful prestige class.

Gladiator is probably slightly better than a fighter most of the time but weaker than a lot of prestige classes all the time IF if were a 3 level prestige class. As a 5 level prestige class it would only compete with a fighter in the specialized combat of the arena. The problem is the class is poorly designed in general. I think it should combine with the exotic weapon master in a 6 level prestige class.

 

[Darklone]

IMHO this is the most silly PrClass.

Come on, which dude will become Gladiator after adventuring a lot? Most gladiators should start at lvl1.

And about these rants about prestige classes. I feel your pain dudes. I houseruled all allowed prestige classes into coreclasse variants or feat chains. Then I give feats every odd level. But well...