Please rate the Archmage

[Merlion]

well if a ~Prestige~ class...especialy one that you cant get till 5 or 6 levels after most PrCLs isnt a good bit more powerful than what you can get normaly then its kind of pointless. I'm really surprised that so many people seem to so dislike the Arch Mage. I thought it was a good rendering of the concept

 

[Numion]

well if a ~Prestige~ class...especialy one that you cant get till 5 or 6 levels after most PrCLs isnt a good bit more powerful than what you can get normaly then its kind of pointless. I'm really surprised that so many people seem to so dislike the Arch Mage. I thought it was a good rendering of the concept

Believe me, I really liked archmage when I first saw it in FRCS. I thought that the abilities were well thought out, and that the class really made archmages special. A title to be achieved.

Then I saw it in play.

Spell Power +6

I understand why you, a player, wouldn't have a problem with it. No player would. And thats the real problem with it. Every friggin player would take it, if they played arcane caster. (Except for those munchkins who were unable to fit it in the same character with Incantatrix ).

The original version would be better, but might also prove too powerful if used in epic play (when the archmage is going to get 20 caster levels anyway).

 

[Merlion]

Believe me, I really liked archmage when I first saw it in FRCS. I thought that the abilities were well thought out, and that the class really made archmages special. A title to be achieved.

Then I saw it in play.

Spell Power +6

I understand why you, a player, wouldn't have a problem with it. No player would. And thats the real problem with it. Every friggin player would take it, if they played arcane caster. (Except for those munchkins who were unable to fit it in the same character with Incantatrix ).

The original version would be better, but might also prove too powerful if used in epic play (when the archmage is going to get 20 caster levels anyway).

Well I just think that to make it a whole lot less powerful would make it something other than what its supposed to be. I mean you cant get +6 spell power till what 18th character level or there abouts? I can see the taking away the spell progression part...although since its only 5 levels(and epic or no if I was running I'd never let it go past 10) and you give up slots, it still doesnt seem that big a deal.
Ok maybe I'm dumb but whats the big munchkin draw to Incantatrix? Ohh the metamagic stuff?

 

[Simulacrum]

Spellpower isnt that bad really. Its scary for DM's and players who dont take the +2 to save feats and dont buy rings of resistance. And finaly even spellpower +120 wont do any good if the other spellcaster just dispels your spells each time you try it.
A good DM should always have the good old Counterspelling mastery (reactive counterspell, improved cs and focused dispel etc) ready.
you can effectively cut a wizards power to 1/10 in an instant with this tactic. and with counterspell mastery you can let the wizard eat his own sugar bad.
In my campaigns every self respecting wizard does this, and prepares a huge arsenal of greater dispelling scrolls that he hands out to his 10+ acolytes. (even if those guys are only lvl 3)
Now there is a problem for any wizard, no matter how high the DC gets.
The rest of the PrC is a bit more problematic. Spellfire is not specificly worded. I think it is *fire/force*50/50 damge after all.
Can it be dispeled? countered? etc..
Elemental mastery is the only truly broken thing on that class.
Mastery of counterspelling is the most funny feature and it works so good against exactly those morons who took spellpower 5 times and greater spellfocus....bye bye munchkin.
Also dont blame the PrC for the hillarious effects of the old Haste.

 

[Merlion]

Arcane Fire is a supernatural ability in the book, so it cant be countered and since its basicaly instant it cant be dispelled.
it says it manifests as a bolt of raw magical energy. No more specfic damage type is given.

 

[Numion]

Well I just think that to make it a whole lot less powerful would make it something other than what its supposed to be. I mean you cant get +6 spell power till what 18th character level or there abouts? I can see the taking away the spell progression part...although since its only 5 levels(and epic or no if I was running I'd never let it go past 10) and you give up slots, it still doesnt seem that big a deal.
Ok maybe I'm dumb but whats the big munchkin draw to Incantatrix? Ohh the metamagic stuff?

Well, if you don't see anything wrong with either Archmage or the Incantatrix, which are commonly regarded as the most broken PrC's out of the 3e Forgotten Realms, I probably can't help you.

PrC's idea isn't to make characters much more powerful than the core classes. They're supposed to give characters a different specialization or focus. (and no, specializing in disintegrating people with ungodly DC's isn't what I'm talking about)

 

[LuYangShih]

Since when do Prestige Classes have to be much more powerful than regular classes? I can name several PrCs where that is not the case, that ARE balanced, and are unique and interesting as well. No arcane caster who is looking for power would not take this class, period. The abilities it gives are unbelievably good, and the cost is neglibible, especially in the long run.

 

[Berk]

The most broken PrC is the spelldancer, hands down. Nothing like having your spelldancer cohort empower a eagle's splendor until it's level 30 on your paladin. Mmmmmm, a 14 times empowered eagle's splendor.

 

[Merlion]

Since when do Prestige Classes have to be much more powerful than regular classes? I can name several PrCs where that is not the case, that ARE balanced, and are unique and interesting as well. No arcane caster who is looking for power would not take this class, period. The abilities it gives are unbelievably good, and the cost is neglibible, especially in the long run.

I dont remember saying MUCH more but maybe I did. Also this is a higher level prestige class than most anyway. And its trying to represent something that is very a powerful...the abilities are called "High Arcana" for a reason.
And since when should one base ones opnion of a class, prestige class, item or spell mainly on how it can be worst abused by those who see there characters as a collection of powers to point and shoot at the monsters?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I think spell power is frequently over rated. Sure its good, but every time soemoen complains about it its about mr dc40. The sun elf, spellcasitng prodigy, greater spell focus, archmage, red wizard of doom.

Lots of times the spell power from archmage isn't the problem its the combo of everything that is broken.

also maybe its just me but at higher levels without spell pwoer I frequently see wizards running aorund doing nothing but buffing comrades or amybe a tensers transformation so tehy can actually effect the oposition for a change. At the high CRs way too many creatures have great SR and or saves. I somewhat think spell pwoer/greater focus etc were intorduced because they realized at high levels way too many things were virtually immune to spells. The problems crop up when you face more ordinary creatures and now it needs a 20 to save.

So my thing is I think there was and is too alrge of a disparity between saves and Sr for creatures of the same CR. If you boost your DCs so you can hang vs the tough guys, you just obliterate everyone else.

Still archmage a little too good. The orginal verison too weak. It is almost designed to take for just a level or 2 which for me means something is wrong. Me I say drop spell casting advancement to 2-3 levels over 5, change master of shaping to scult spell metafeat on the fly, make master of elements element specific like energy substitution.