Please rate the Archmage

[Epametheus]

Staggeringly broken, and I love it.

 

[Merlion]

Hmmm....I'm coming to see that generaly things are only broken in the hands of those that see them as broken....(thats not actualy aimed at you Epametheus)

 

[gfunk]

Hmmm....I'm coming to see that generaly things are only broken in the hands of those that see them as broken....(thats not actualy aimed at you Epametheus)

Amen to that, "brokeness" clearly is in the eye of the beholder. But chalk me up as an old codger who obsesses over game balance. Playing an Archmage is all fun and games unless you are the DM.

 

[Merlion]

No offense or implication on you at all but I think a good DM would find an Arch Mage a good challenge. Which is as it shoold be....that "Arch" counts for quite a bit

 

[LuYangShih]

Broken is not a relative thing. Broken is when a class is so powerful, it causes one or more of the following to happen:

1) The DM has to do extra work just to compensate for the powers of one PC, and institute specific counters every battle or encounter to prevent them from steamrolling right over it.

2) The other players feel useless, because the broken character is so much better than them they never get to do anything fun or useful. So either these players become designated "sidekicks" or retire their current characters and come in with another broken character.

3) The PC can take on encounters far beyond what they should be capable of and once again causes the DM to have to modify everything just to compensate for the one broken character.

And the Archmage does at least 1 and 2, IME. A DM shouldn't have to put extra work and modify everything just because one PC is stronger than they should be, and the rest of the players shouldn't become less useful because of just one PC. You can work around it, but in my opinion it's not worth the trouble or the hassle when it really doesn't add anything to the game in exchange.

 

[wraithcat]

The problem with the Archmage is that it simply turns the majority of spells into auto killers, and thats without even trying. The DCs that are achievable with this PrC simply overwhealm anything else that the DM can muster, meaning that the DM is put in a position, where he has to Min/Max the bad guys saves just to give them a chance.

Of course if you have a player that has min maxed his Archmage, then you might as well pack up and watch the telly, as the adventure is already a foregone conclusion and likely to be very boring for all concerned.

 

[Simulacrum]

I think spell power is frequently over rated. Sure its good, but every time soemoen complains about it its about mr dc40. The sun elf, spellcasitng prodigy, greater spell focus, archmage, red wizard of doom.

Lots of times the spell power from archmage isn't the problem its the combo of everything that is broken.

also maybe its just me but at higher levels without spell pwoer I frequently see wizards running aorund doing nothing but buffing comrades or amybe a tensers transformation so tehy can actually effect the oposition for a change. At the high CRs way too many creatures have great SR and or saves. I somewhat think spell pwoer/greater focus etc were intorduced because they realized at high levels way too many things were virtually immune to spells. The problems crop up when you face more ordinary creatures and now it needs a 20 to save.

So my thing is I think there was and is too alrge of a disparity between saves and Sr for creatures of the same CR. If you boost your DCs so you can hang vs the tough guys, you just obliterate everyone else.

Still archmage a little too good. The orginal verison too weak. It is almost designed to take for just a level or 2 which for me means something is wrong. Me I say drop spell casting advancement to 2-3 levels over 5, change master of shaping to scult spell metafeat on the fly, make master of elements element specific like energy substitution.

Word I completely agree with Shard!
well worded.
DC is way overrated, its like blaming the Fighter for his high attackbonus. Not that I dont think DC make a big difference here and there but: all the nasty high CR monsters tend to have bad ass saves and sr. Also as soon as the monsters and bbeg have access to stuff like counterspelling / Greater Dispel and Spellturning things look WAY different. I have seen so many spellcasters breaking up in tears as they realized that all their super DC spells are worth when it comes down to true challenges, even worse their own powers start to be the doom for the party. Normaly I dont even bother to take anything exept the normal Spell Focus feat.
The only truly kick ass feats are: improved counterspell and reactive counterspell, and the focused dispel feature. (I have them as a feat)
the most fun is when you are so good at dispeling and countering that haste becomes useful again (3.5 e) just give those nerdy munchkins some stabs with your knife

 

[0-hr]

Damn I'm sick of all these "rate such-and-such" threads. What does it have to do with rules?

 

[Merlion]

Darn I'm sick of people spamming multiple threads with the same message

 

[Epametheus]

One way to view Archmage is as a non-epic Epic class. Save bonuses can go right through the roof at high levels, and especially at Epic levels -- a well-built epic characters low save can easily be above a +30. It's also the same for high-end monsters.

Now, the archmage is actually able to keep up (and Epic Spell Focus & Epic Spell Penetration might not actually be must-have feats for the Archmage, though the AM is even better off is he/she takes them). But this has the side effect of lesser opponents being hopelessly out-gunned. But people facing a high level wizard when they're not specially prepared for it are going to die anyways.

The archmage is probably much more appropriate in Epic play than it is in non-Epic play...