Please rate the Archmage

[Merlion]

Thats true...the spell requirements can be quite a pain for a sorcerer.
Still dont think spell power's that big a deal like I said if I was gonna change it it would just be like a limitation on how many times you can take it.
Yea I know the min/max builds are going to max it out..I was talking about me. And about how thats one of the reasons its a player problem not a design problem.
I foresee my sorcerer taking spell power prolly twice. Arcane fire is a must for his theme and character concept. Probably at least one spell like ability. I'm a big variety person, me.

 

[Mortaneus]

Two final things. One yes spell power can be extremely...well..powerful. especialy if you spend all your high arcana on it(something I cant even imagine doing but I know many do). However I really feel that once you get into those higher levels(14, 15 16 etc) theres lots of baddies with very high saves and/or SR...so it sort of makes up for it..I personaly would think.

The difficulty with spell power is that you can get +6!!! from it. It's not a matter of making up for it. With a +6, combined with spell focus (which they have 2 of), plus greater spell focus, and spell penetration/greater spell penetration, the archmage can be setting DCs that baddies of anywhere near their CR can not possibly make, and who can blow right past any SR with barely any effort.

As for not taking all three levels of it, why wouldn't you? Take a look at the powers the archmage can get.

Arcane Reach- Pathetic. Most of the best arcane spells are ranged anyway. For a divine caster, it's a different story entirely. For an arcane caster, though, it's not worth getting.

Arcane Fire- Not worth a 9th level slot. You can do up to 14d6 of damage max. Sure, it's nice to be able to fling your 1st level spells as 6d6 ranged attacks, but at that point, the wizard is better off cutting loose with their high end spells.

Mastery of Counterspelling- Not worth it. You get to stand there and wait for your enemy to do something, when you could be actually contributing to the fight.

Mastery of Elements- WORTH IT. Run into something with energy resistance? Just switch.

Mastery of Shaping- By far their best ability. Anyone who's ever played a boomer mage in a party with fighters that like to charge to melee round 1, can appreciate the value of this. Combined with Mord's Disjunction and other such spells, it's just horrifying. Leave a hole in the center of your antimagic shell to stand in? Or for the party members too?

Spell Power +1/+2/+3- Yuck. Nothing more needs be said.

Spell-Like Ability- For one slot, it would be worth it. Not for two. Get a pearl of power.

 

[Merlion]

The difficulty with spell power is that you can get +6!!! from it. It's not a matter of making up for it. With a +6, combined with spell focus (which they have 2 of), plus greater spell focus, and spell penetration/greater spell penetration, the archmage can be setting DCs that baddies of anywhere near their CR can not possibly make, and who can blow right past any SR with barely any effort.

As for not taking all three levels of it, why wouldn't you? Take a look at the powers the archmage can get.


Read the last few posts.

 

[Simulacrum]

The difficulty with spell power is that you can get +6!!! from it. It's not a matter of making up for it. With a +6, combined with spell focus (which they have 2 of), plus greater spell focus, and spell penetration/greater spell penetration, the archmage can be setting DCs that baddies of anywhere near their CR can not possibly make, and who can blow right past any SR with barely any effort.

As for not taking all three levels of it, why wouldn't you? Take a look at the powers the archmage can get.

Arcane Reach- Pathetic. Most of the best arcane spells are ranged anyway. For a divine caster, it's a different story entirely. For an arcane caster, though, it's not worth getting.

Arcane Fire- Not worth a 9th level slot. You can do up to 14d6 of damage max. Sure, it's nice to be able to fling your 1st level spells as 6d6 ranged attacks, but at that point, the wizard is better off cutting loose with their high end spells.

Mastery of Counterspelling- Not worth it. You get to stand there and wait for your enemy to do something, when you could be actually contributing to the fight.

Mastery of Elements- WORTH IT. Run into something with energy resistance? Just switch.

Mastery of Shaping- By far their best ability. Anyone who's ever played a boomer mage in a party with fighters that like to charge to melee round 1, can appreciate the value of this. Combined with Mord's Disjunction and other such spells, it's just horrifying. Leave a hole in the center of your antimagic shell to stand in? Or for the party members too?

Spell Power +1/+2/+3- Yuck. Nothing more needs be said.

Spell-Like Ability- For one slot, it would be worth it. Not for two. Get a pearl of power.

You Sir must be joking. counterspelling mastery is by far one of the most awesome features for a spellcaster there is.

"You get to stand there and wait for your enemy to do something, when you could be actually contributing to the fight."

*lol* thats why you need to lose initiative and take the feat reacticve counterspell. So you can just wait the what happens and decide at the end of the round to lose some spells if nothing can be countered (that in fact is turned into an attack anyway)

A defensive Archmage will win any fight against some twinkish spellpower mage, because he going against his own DC spells.

The same goes for high level monster like the pit fiend he can prepare to counterspell after that he casts a quickened powerword and bye bye spellpower mage.

counterspelling is a very powerful tactical tool. In an even situation (eye for an eye so to speak) the guy with counterspelling feats and cs mastery will win.

 

[V_Shane]

Hey this would make for a good comic strip

 

[Mortaneus]

*lol* thats why you need to lose initiative and take the feat reacticve counterspell. So you can just wait the what happens and decide at the end of the round to lose some spells if nothing can be countered (that in fact is turned into an attack anyway)

A defensive Archmage will win any fight against some twinkish spellpower mage, because he going against his own DC spells.

The same goes for high level monster like the pit fiend he can prepare to counterspell after that he casts a quickened powerword and bye bye spellpower mage.

The problem with counterspelling is that you need to have the exact same spell prepared to do it, or use a dispel magic variant, which isn't that certain to work. Improved counterspelling requires a spell from the same school that is HIGHER level. Meaning I'll just throw 9th level spells at you. No counterspelling those, unless you've got the same thing prepped.

 

[Mortaneus]

Hey this would make for a good comic strip

And yes, I agree. ENWorld Antics, Vol. 1

Get your copy while it's hot!


BTW, I think the reason I consider the Archmage so overpowered is that the class is at LEAST on par with the Legendary classes from the Path books, and unlike the Wizard King, it has full casting progression, and fairly easy set of requirements to fulfill.


>EDIT<

Hey...that gives me an idea....

How about putting together an ENWorld thread generator program. Just have lists of common arguments, their counterpoints, and their counterpoints. Just fill in the blanks with things like class names, user names, mention a module or two, and finish it off with a reference to Hitler or Politics, and you've got an instant ENWorld locked thread!

 

[Endur]

I voted perfect because the Archmage PRC is so powerful that just about any arcane caster is going to want it (if that arcane caster cares about how powerful he or she is).

I agree completely with everyone that said it is "broken".

Tom

 

[Celtavian]

Re

I'll be quite honest: the Archmage is very powerful for a regular D&D game, and no non-FR campaign should allow it in unless you are allowing every FR prestige class.

If you are playing a FR campaign, there is not reason not to take the Archmage presitige class. The Red Wizard and Shadow Adept prestige classes are quite powerful, and can raise their DC's to levels more powerful than any other prestige class in their chosen specialties. When dealing with such enemies, you had better have some powerful magical capabilities yourself.

FR is the only campaign setting that is specifically geared for arcane and divine casters. Arcane and divine casters rule the roost in FR, and the Archmage and its divine twin, the Hierophant, really make both arcane and divine casters stand out.

Glad they did it. I love seeing powerful Archmagi in action.

 

[Caliban]

I think the Archmage class is great, and perfectly balanced if you remove the spell power ability. Same thing for the other classes that grant spell DC increases that stack with the spell focus feats.

There are simply far to many ways to increase spell DC's, directly or indirectly (by increasing your spellcasting stat).

Even if you are an Archmage, being able to cast a spell with a Save DC of 39+ means that you can autokill anyone by hitting them with their bad save, and have a better than 50% chance of killing them if you affect them even if you hit their good save.