bret said:
To those who think the loremaster has no cost, you are basically saying that there is no value to:
1. Flexibility in choosing your skill points.
Given that most Wizards max out Knowledge (Arcana) anyway, you are only talking about adding one more Knowledge skill. Given that the Loremaster has 4 skill points per level, you are going to get all of those skill points back at the very least.
2. Flexibility in choosing your early (pre-9th level) feats.
Nothing says you must take a PrC at the earliest possible opportunity. Loremaster is a PrC that one can easily put off until 10th, 12th or 15th level and still gain a large benefit from it.
3. Familiar abilities such as Spell Resistence and Scry on Familiar.
Scry on familiar
is almost valueless, since the use of a single 4th level spell will let you scry on it anyway. The loss of familiar Spell Resistance is a cost, but not that big of one, most of the familiar's other abilities continue to progress even with the PrC.
In my experience, the usefulness of 10 ranks in two different knowledge skills will be very campaign dependent. In many campaigns, you would be better off spreading those skill points around to other skills. Examples would include a Craft so that when you get the Fabricate spell you can use it, same for Magical Tattoo from Magic of Faerun.
Yes, and? Given that Wizards tend to acquire more skill points as they go (as a result of increasing their Intelligence on a regular basis), and given that they don't have all that many skills that are critical for them to function, this is not a big obstacle. The only critical Wizard skills are Concentration and Spellcraft, after those, you can select your skills as you choose. A 16 Intelligence Wizard can choose those plus two Knowledge skills and a Craft skill almost effortlessly. A human Wizard can choose Scry as well.
In any campaign, it does make a difference what feats you take early in the game. The loremaster requires Skill Focus (a general feat) and three metamagic or item creation feats.
And you are already going to take two feats in that group to begin with. You must take Scribe Scroll, you must take a metamagic or item creation feat at 5th level. You are already halfway to the PrC feat requirments just with your mandatory selections.
Furthermore, you can only get one feat in 10 levels of Loremaster, you get two as a Wizard.
Nothing requires you take the full 10 levels of Loremaster. You can easily take just 5 levels and do just fine.
Using a non-human wizard, this leaves you with just one general feat to select before 9th level. It is true that many wizards would take item creation or metamagic feats, but it is also just a true that things like Leadership, Spell Penetration, or Spell Focus: Enchantment are very useful. A straight wizard could choose all three of these before 9th level, a Loremaster could only have one of them.
A human Loremaster could have two of them. A Loremaster that waited until 10th level to complete the requirements for Loremaster could have all three as well. (1st Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus; 3rd Spell Penetration; 5th Item Creation//Metamagic; 6th Leadership; 9th Skill Focus; 10th Item Creation/Metamagic). It is not as hard as you make it out to be.
Furthermore, using a human to show that there is no cost to a loremaster is a bogus argument. You aren't showing that the requirements are easy, you are showing how useful it can be to be a human. When the cost is in terms of skill points and feats, the human can better afford those costs.
It isn't "bogus", it is showing that the PrC can be easily obtained at limited cost. Besides, it is easy to show how a nonhuman can advance to Loremaster with limited cost as well. You keep harping on how impossible it is to meet the requirements, but you ignore the fact that nothing says you must take the PrC at 8th level.
It seems to me that all of the arguments made against the loremaster apply even more strongly against every other PrC with full spell progression.
Who is arguing against the Loremaster?
