Plot Monsters: Give Dragons & Devils Rituals!

[rkanodia]

Perhaps the Dragon of Fear and Flame has a chamber that slowly petrifies whomever enters. Do we *really* need to detail a ritual that allows this to happen? Would having "Create Chamber of Petrification" be a good use of page space in the MM? If there is a necessary warding that you feel is needed for all lairs, isn't that an issue for the game? If a player asks how such a chamber came about, do you need anything more than noting it's the result of foul magic? Just create cool, interesting encounters and work out how it all came about as appropriate for your playstyle.

To add to this, it sounds like the encounter system in 4E will actually make this kind of thing EASIER to adjudicate than previous editions. The Chamber of Petrification will become an environmental hazard. Figure out about how long the chamber takes to kill a player, and what precautions can be taken against it, and you'll (presumably; this is all assuming that the traps/environmental stuff pans out the way they are claiming) have something that can be dropped right into an encounter with the dragon, with a reasonable approximation of the difficulty of the encounter and an experience value which takes it into consideration.

 

[kennew142]

I'm not sure that giving a monster the ability to do rituals would increase its CR. Challenge Rating is a measure of how tough a creature is in combat, not what it can do outside of combat.

My point is that these kinds of rules are necessary for PCs, because the GM has to make sure that they can't derail the entire campaign (preferably by taking their abilities into account rather than simply hand-waving them away). They are not necessary for any creature under the control of the GM.

 

[Alratan]

These kind of abilities do need to be explicitly called out, and not just down to DM fiat, as it cuts down on the amount the DM has to go out of their way to make known. If a group knows that Dragons can cast rituals (a reasonable thing for a band of wannabe Dragon slayers to know, without meta-gaming), they will take account of it, but if it isn't in the stats, they won't even think to ask. This leads to damaging verisimilitude.

 

[Lackhand]

These kind of abilities do need to be explicitly called out, and not just down to DM fiat, as it cuts down on the amount the DM has to go out of their way to make known. If a group knows that Dragons can cast rituals (a reasonable thing for a band of wannabe Dragon slayers to know, without meta-gaming), they will take account of it, but if it isn't in the stats, they won't even think to ask. This leads to damaging verisimilitude.

Great. "Hey, guys -- in my game, monsters that are classically magical are herein magical also. Dragons, demons, pixies -- they all make weird stuff happen around them. If you're not sure if it's magical enough, neither is your character. Good luck!"

FIFY

 

[FourthBear]

These kind of abilities do need to be explicitly called out, and not just down to DM fiat, as it cuts down on the amount the DM has to go out of their way to make known. If a group knows that Dragons can cast rituals (a reasonable thing for a band of wannabe Dragon slayers to know, without meta-gaming), they will take account of it, but if it isn't in the stats, they won't even think to ask. This leads to damaging verisimilitude.

I agree that if the DM continually subverts expectations and makes every monster an "exception", then the the players will eventually not respond strongly. if everything is a special case, you've lost the power of generalization to allow for rational planning and problem solving. However, I also don't think that the DM should feel in any way limited in his encounter and antagonist design to what's in the book. The DM should design his encounters fully as he sees fit and should definitely think of foreshadowing and setting expectations for the PCs for major encounters. I don't mind lists of rituals as examples of what might be interesting, but for the most part I think detailed rituals should be generated for things that the PCs might use or have to stop. That's a lot harder to make and balance for the campaign. How exactly the Howard the Giant King creates his flock of giant eagles doesn't really need anything more than "Howard is rumored to have used old giantish magics." to justify.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm not sure that giving a monster the ability to do rituals would increase its CR. Challenge Rating is a measure of how tough a creature is in combat, not what it can do outside of combat.

Of course, CR has gone the way of the dodo and is being replaced by monster level...

You point still probably stands though

 

[M.L. Martin]

A tidbit that might be of interest:

At D&D Game Day, I overheard someone asking Mike Mearls about the lack of things like disguise self in the Spined Devil's stat block. Mike responded that if that power adds to the adventure, you can plug it back in; I got the impression that if it doesn't have a direct combat effect, you can add a power without messing up the creature's balance. I hope I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.

 

[LostSoul]

Less defendable from attacks and assualts. Harder to make them a mover and shaker when other movers and shakers could get at them.

I don't understand. Why does simplifying a creature make it weaker?

 

[Sir Brennen]

I agree with OP. But I want more. I like the 4E idea to par down stat blocks and abilities etc of monsters. But I also want rules to help me increase the options available to major plot bad guys (and I suppose good guy, as well) monsters- without having to eyeball their 4E equiv of challenge rating. Maybe working a bit like a template or a bit like the 'wizard training feat' of 4E that PCs have.

Sounds like your wish will be granted. From Jennifer Clarke Wilkes' blog:

Last week was a kind of intermezzo, three "spare" days between New Year's and the first full work week. Now I am back at it, this time helping with the Dungeon Master's Guide for a few weeks. I have, perhaps foolishly, taken on the DM's Toolbox chapter, which contains a lot of information about creating and customizing monsters and NPCs. Obviously, this material has to mesh properly with the Monster Manual, which is still a work in progress itself (though approaching the finish line). There's some cool stuff in here, simplifying the advancement and templating process quite a bit from 3E.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Sounds like your wish will be granted. From Jennifer Clarke Wilkes' blog:

coool, thanks for that