D&D 5E Ploymorph and Concentration

[Psikerlord#]

Hmm I get the impression the new polymorph is for offence, turning your opponent into a fish, or whatever.

 

[Gargoyle]

Hmm I get the impression the new polymorph is for offence, turning your opponent into a fish, or whatever.

Sure seems like that is the primary intention. But I could see some circumstances when you could use it on yourself. And the wizard of the school of transmutation gets it solely to cast on himself. And I find it annoying that he doesn't maintain his mental stats when doing so.

I suppose a transmuter of 10th level + is also considered to be a shapechanger, since that's the name of the ability they get, making them immune to the polymorph of others, which is kind of nice, but that may not have been intended, as I don't see anything stating that druids, even of the circle of the moon, are considered to be shapechangers even though they surely are.

 

[Li Shenron]

Changing mental stats can certainly cause some drawbacks (beasts usually have very low Int), but it doesn't necessarily imply that the target believes he's now a beast, unless the spell says so.

So the question is: does the spell say so? Does polymorph turn the target into e.g. a rat also in the sense that he believes he's really a rat?

 

[Gargoyle]

Changing mental stats can certainly cause some drawbacks (beasts usually have very low Int), but it doesn't necessarily imply that the target believes he's now a beast, unless the spell says so.

So the question is: does the spell say so? Does polymorph turn the target into e.g. a rat also in the sense that he believes he's really a rat?

It doesn't address that directly, but since you keep the same alignment, I'd say no.

What annoys me about it is that the transmuter who polymorphs into a cat to spy on his arch nemesis could be ruled as not being smart enough to remember why he did so in the first place or understand the language that he hears. It doesn't seem right to me. The druid doesn't have this issue.

 

[Li Shenron]

It doesn't address that directly, but since you keep the same alignment, I'd say no.

What annoys me about it is that the transmuter who polymorphs into a cat to spy on his arch nemesis could be ruled as not being smart enough to remember why he did so in the first place or understand the language that he hears. It doesn't seem right to me. The druid doesn't have this issue.

It might be ruled light that, but it sounds to me like the spell description leaves a lot of aspects open.

What is certain, is that you have to use the beasts' stats for dice rolls, e.g. saving throws and checks. This just really affects the probabilities of success, so it isn't a big deal conceptually.

At the same time, there (probably) isn't a minimum Int required by the rules in order to speak a language. The rest is up to the DM apparently... one DM could be harsh and force the character to act dumb, another may let it behave as good as the player can (supposedly, these DMs would do the same choice with someone playing an Int 3 Barbarian for example).

However, it sounds like polymorph was deliberately designed differently, compared to wildshape... which is why I was wondering if it said in the spell description that it really turns fully the target into an animal. If the spell is designed as primarily offensive, it would be understandable.

 

[Andor]

It doesn't address that directly, but since you keep the same alignment, I'd say no.

What annoys me about it is that the transmuter who polymorphs into a cat to spy on his arch nemesis could be ruled as not being smart enough to remember why he did so in the first place or understand the language that he hears. It doesn't seem right to me. The druid doesn't have this issue.

You retain alignment and personality while polymorphed, but do get the "game statistics" including mental scores and presumably skills of the chosen creature.

So a happy gnome becomes a happy monkey and a dwarf whose chainmail has been chaffing becomes a grumpy badger.

The "Speak with Animals" spell does say that knowledge and awareness of many beasts is limited by their intelligence, but there is no particular guidance how. 5e doesn't have 3e's hard-coded 3 int = language use rule. Looking in the critters section the Frog has an int of 1, a Mule has an Int of 2 and a Wolf has an Int of 3.

There is certainly room for interpretation here, which is not a mistake IMHO.
However my own feeling would tend to be that since animals with an int of 2 (Warhorse, Rat) are capable of sophisticated behavior they would probably be smart enough to remember simple plans. Since creatures with an Int of 3 (Mastiff, Zombie) are capable of understanding spoken commands, they are also capable of at least recalling spoken words even if they might need to wait to get back to human form to understand full and subtle implications of overheard comments.

 

[seebs]

So, I was looking at True Polymorph. If you concentrate for the whole one-hour duration, the transformation becomes permanent.

Does that override the "revert when dropped to 0 hit points" thing? If not, polymorphing someone who's at full health into another form that's still useful to them seems like a great way to get a hit point buffer.

 

[Gargoyle]

I think I agree that it is open to interpretation how not retaining your mental statistics applies to tasks, and what can be remembered or retained etc. And I'm ok with the druid's wildshape working differently from polymorph. My only quibble is that the wizard is going to always have an exceptional intelligence, way above most characters. Willingly reducing it to a 3 or less doesn't seem like something a transmuter would want to do, and in most fiction a wizard that polymorphs into a beast seems to retain their intelligence.

However, I'm amused by the roleplaying prospect of a polymorphed wizard being dumber than his or her familiar. Or polymorphed wizards getting distracted, chasing after a mouse or bird, if you interpret it as instinct overriding reason. It just seems like the DM could screw the player a little too much with these type of shenanigans and make what is supposed to be a cool subclass ability something that is hardly ever used. For the regular 4th level spell though, such things seem reasonable and fun.

 

[Mouseferatu]

So, I was looking at True Polymorph. If you concentrate for the whole one-hour duration, the transformation becomes permanent.

Does that override the "revert when dropped to 0 hit points" thing? If not, polymorphing someone who's at full health into another form that's still useful to them seems like a great way to get a hit point buffer.

I would think it does override, yes. Once the transformation is permanent, that's it. The target is now the new creature, not a changed version of the old creature. I wouldn't allow dispel magic or restoration to do it, either. Only another permanent shapechange or a wish.

 

[Rod Staffwand]

The mental attributes aspect of polymorph is problematic without guidance on how, or if, these low scores should affect role-playing. Valid interpretations make self or ally polymorphing range from highly effective to functionally worthless or even dangerous.

I'd be tempted to say that mental attributes have no affect on RPing, memory or decision-making and only affect checks. It's pretty much what I do anyway and it generates the least amount of problems.

But poorly written crap like this isn't winning me over to this system.