Point buy - How high do you go? (and why)

[Orias]

I usually use 30 in a high-magic campaign, 28 any other time.

 

[drothgery]

Depends on the setting.

Greyhawk: 28pts
Forgotten Realms: 32pts
Midnight: 34pts

Rolling is too inconsistant for my taste and nobody likes to play a sucky character alongside their friend's superman.

Hey, didn't you forget something?
Ash the Ebou Dari Wilder is a 30pt character, because I wanted characters just a little bit better than mathmatically average 4d6 characters, but not quite as good as actual 4d6 characters.

 

[Gizzard]

After using the dice-rolling method and having characters who would be worth 52 points by the point-buy method, with 48 as the average, I decided that dice rolling was not really the system for me any longer.

We ended up using a 40 point buy for a related reason. All of us made our characters in the PHB E-Tools demo originally. If you reverse engineer it, it looks like you get characters in the 40-50 point range.

When I started my campaign, everyone wanted to have characters roughly equivalent to the previous characters, and that meant 40 point buy.

-

I'd definitely push for a lower level point buy if we were to start a new campaign. In general, the most aggressive players used 40 points to push 3 stats into the "high" range, getting 7-9 total in ability mods. Here is our Wizard, who is pretty typical of the things people did (S:10 +0, D:17 +3, C:17 +3, I:18 + 4, W:9 -1, Ch:8 -1).

This sort of arrangement is a little more egregious for first level fighters, who end up +4 hit/damage, +3 AC and +3 HPs. Someone suggested the DM can just re-balance the encounters, but low level characters already are prone to death because their HPs can be taken away in a single lucky roll. Throwing a couple more monsters on the pile just increases the variance in this problem.

 

[Glyfair]

Not really. This is the first thread on point buy that isn't just a debate on whether to use it or not.

Exactly. I've had enough of the finger-pointing and sniping that goes along with the discussion about whether you like point buy or do you roll your stats. Personally, I like point buy (for reasons I've stated in one of the other threads). There are good and valid reason on both sides of the fence (as well as stupid reasons, too).

I started this thread stating that it was for those who use the standard DMG point buy. That's what I wanted to hear and compare. What level suits you?

It spits out either very average homogenous stats, or else allows for horrendous min/maxing with no nod to reality at all (Where did the idea come from that everyone with super strength will always have rock-bottom INT, WIS, and CHA?)

That depends on your group, doesn't it? My group doesn't create character's from stereotypes (well, unless that's the character they happen to have in mind). The reason we prefer point buy is because we have a character in mind and want to run that one.

To tell the truth, with the right group, I'd have no problem with letting them choose that stats they think their character would have (after I give them an idea of the campaign expected power level). Indeed, the campaign I played the longest in was a Melanda, Land of Mystery campaign. The GM told you to create your character and, as long as he ok'ed it, you could run it. It worked well for that group.

- Heroism is about actions, not stats. It's not about being so much better than everyone else; it's about having the moral & intestinal fortitude to do those things that others won't. 25 points gives enough over everyday commoners to survive adventuring, while not being so powerful that characters are heroic just because they're supermen.

The only thing I disagree about this is that it's an absolute statement. What you describe is heroism, it's certainly not the only definition of heroism. Yes, the everyman is a certain type of hero. So are Superman and Batman.

I think if a thread was started that asked for a definition of heroism, it could go on for ages & pages. Sure there are the everyman-type heros (ala David & Bilbo). There are also the other end of the spectrum (Conan & Superman).

A lot depends on what you want the players to do. If you want to run a David vs. Goliath scenario, expect David to die a majority of the time, unless you stack the deck towards him (system-wise or by Deus Ex Machina).

I do think that the type of campaign you are creating certainly would determine the level of point buy you'd choose. If you want the everyman game, you'd start at 25 points or less. If you want a game where Batman is a possible character, 40 points might be a too low.

Glyfair of Glamis

 

[Kershek]

Our first game used rolls from the Character Generator, which produced characters between 36 and 52 points. Some characters were definitely more powerful than others, and that didn't really make things fun. We settled on point buy after that.

We use 40 point characters in FR. It gives us plenty of power and a lot of options in character design, including character classes that have a lot of prime stats, like the monk and paladin.

 

[humble minion]

I use 40 points in Star Wars, partly because it's a very 'heroic' genre, and partly because it uses a VP/WP system and (generally) relatively low Defense/AC values, so a Con and Dex that are at least decent are pretty much necessities if your character wants to survive.

 

[Ogre Mage]

Point Buy

32 point buy. I find this makes the characters tough enough to be formidable -- they are heroes after all -- without making things so easy that the DM has to adjust CR. It is just enough points for a character with multiple stat dependencies, such as the monk or paladin, to be effective. I like it because 32 point buy doesn't "punish" players for running these type of characters.

28 point buy could be effective for a lower-powered campaign. I would caution against using more than a 36 point buy.

 

[ForceUser]

The recent comments on the threads discussing point buy has stirred my curiosity. Those of you that use the DMG point buy method, what point buy level to you use and why?

Personally, I think I've settled on a 28 point standard. I alway run a heroic game & I feel this simulates this the best. The 25 point level just isn't quite heroic enough for me. I've tried 32 point buy & it just seems too superheroic for my taste (although it's close).

Another thing I've noticed is that I seem to get the best character variation at this level. With 32 points, people tend to spread the stats around and have similiar levels. With 25 point buy, you can't afford not to focus on you key skills, and the stats seem to be similiar. However, with 28 you seem to be able to add to your key stats (as with 25) and have a few points to add "character." You don't have enough points to raise everything, though, so something usually suffers (at least a little).

Glyfair of Glamis

25 points, because with stat buffs and stat buffing items a 25-point character is still going to be a god at 20th level. I know this because I reluctantly played a 25-point character in a previous campaign, from 7th to 13th level. By 13th-level - with stat buffing items - the character had a 17 Str, 18 Dex, 14 Con, 18 Int, 10 Wis, and 8 Cha. Those are obscene stats. If you let all of your PCs run with ridiculous 36+ point baseline builds they are really going to be out of control stat-wise when you factor in stat buffing magic items.

So, lesson learned. 25 points is not bad at all for most classes, though I will concede that it is a slim build for monks and paladins. That said, if you play standard D&D, it's only a matter of time before your players dump item buffs on top of their stats.

 

[Snoweel]

If you want a game where Batman is a possible character, 40 points might be a too low.

I beg to differ...

Batman
18th level Human Male (whatever classes):

STR: 15 (+2 from level advancement)
DEX: 16 (ditto)
CON: 14
INT: 13
WIS: 10
CHA: 8

Total point-buy: 25 and you'll notice Batman is far superior to the everyday person.

 

[Chimera]

What kind of crappy stats are those for Batman? The man has a serious Will save and a decent Charisma, for starters. He's much more than 13/10/8 for those last three stats and probably a bit higher for the first three.

I'll be using 32-25 points in my next game, varying by chosen class. This in a world where certain positions come with certain obligations and there aren't a lot of magic items or (friendly) Wizards capable of making them.