Point-buy or rolling? Your preference and why?

[kenjib]

Here's a method to take the edge off of the imbalances of rolling and also avoid the repetitive and predictable stat allocations of point buy.

Organic Point Buy Ability Score Generation Method

Created by myself with modifications from nsruf

1. Roll 3d6 for each stat in order and take all scores where they fall.
2. Swap a single pair of ability scores.
3. Calculate your point total as if you had created this character with the standard point buy rules.
4. Consult your DM regarding the baseline for the campaign (25 point, 28 point, 32 point, etc.).*
5. If your character as rolled has a total point value greater than the baseline amount, congratulations! You get 4 additional points to spend at will as per the point buy rules.
6. If your character as rolled has a point total less than the baseline amount, subtract your total from the baseline. You may spend the greater of 4 or this value at will as per the point buy rules.

* When determining this baseline, DM's should consider that it is quite possible for a character to end up with a character 4 or more points higher than this value. This is not a hard upper limit as it is under standard point buy rules, nor is it a minimum.

score - point cost
8 (or less) - 0*
9 - 1
10 - 2
11 - 3
12 - 4
13 - 5
14 - 6
15 - 8
16 - 10
17 - 13
18 - 16

* It costs 1 point per ability point to raise an ability score below 8

--------EXAMPLE 1--------

For all of these examples I'm coming up with character concept before rolling, and using a 25 point base.

I'm going to make a scholarly archeologist/spellunker/explorer archetype rogue/fighter character. Here's what I rolled up (str, dex, con, int, wis, cha in order):

Roll 1: 1, 5, 3 = 9.
Roll 2: 4, 2, 3 = 9.
Roll 3: 5, 4, 5 = 14.
Roll 4: 4, 2, 4 = 10.
Roll 5: 2, 4, 6 = 12.
Roll 6: 2, 2, 1 = 5.

Pretty craptastic! Well at least let me switch wis and dex. Now I have:

str: 9
dex: 12
con: 14
int: 10
wis: 9
cha: 5

This is a 14 pt. character. 25-14 = 11, which is much larger than 4, so I get 11 additional points to spend. Let's spend those points to raise str to 10, int to 14, and dex to 16. Now I have completed stats at:

str: 10
dex: 16
con: 14
int: 14
wis: 9
cha: 5

I think this guy has spent far too much time with his books, rather than people. His unrelenting drive toward adventurous pursuits has left him somewhat lacking in social skills...

--------EXAMPLE 2--------

A travelling monk:

Roll 1: 3, 1, 6 = 10.
Roll 2: 5, 2, 6 = 13.
Roll 3: 2, 4, 3 = 9.
Roll 4: 3, 6, 5 = 14.
Roll 5: 2, 2, 6 = 10.
Roll 6: 4, 2, 1 = 7.

switch int and wis for:

str: 10
dex: 13
con: 9
int: 10
wis: 14
cha: 7

16 point character gives me 9 points left. I end up with:

str: 14
dex: 14
con: 12
int: 10
wis: 14
cha: 8

--------EXAMPLE 3--------

A ranger rolls:

Roll 1: 1, 3, 3 = 7.
Roll 2: 6, 1, 6 = 13.
Roll 3: 4, 2, 5 = 11.
Roll 4: 6, 6, 4 = 16.
Roll 5: 3, 5, 6 = 14.
Roll 6: 4, 2, 6 = 12.

This is a pretty lucky roll for straight 3d6. I'm switching int with strength for:

str: 16
dex: 13
con: 11
int: 7
wis: 14
cha: 12

This is a 28 point character, which is greater than the 25 point limit. So I get 4 points to spend, which is the minimum (you always get at least 4 points to spend). So, I end up with:

str: 16
dex: 14
con: 12
int: 9
wis: 14
cha: 12

This rather lucky rolls still pays off, but the deviance is not as drastic as straight rolling might be. First, 4 of his points are buried in the cha stat (which he probably wouldn't have done by choice), second the spread between various important stats may not be exactly as he would have chosen (he might have wanter higher dex, for example, along with a lower wisdom because he knows that he could always boost it up by the time he needs it later), and third the first two examples got extra points to make sure they at least reached a threshold of competence.

----------------

If these example stat sets are ending up too low (or disparate) on average for your taste, just up the point buy threshhold to 28 or 32. The higher the point buy value, the more customization is also available post-roll, since you end up with more points to spend on average.

 

[BryonD]

Point buy

I have used an alternate roll 3d6 six times. Then if that is less than 32 points (usually it is) then you can bring it up to 32. But no score can be lowered.

This gives a small chance of a greater than 32 point character. If you roll poorly it ends up being exactly point buy.
If you roll average then you still get a 32 point character, but you are nudged away from extreme max-min.

This system (or something real close to it) was actually developed in a thread here a long time ago.

 

[BryonD]

Oh, uh, yeah.

I think it was Kenjib.

 

[nsruf]

Created by myself with modifications from nsruf

Thanks for still giving me credit Not that I have ever used that system, I just commented on your draft - how long ago? Last year or in 2001?

 

[Centaur]

Depends on the flavour of the game that I'm running. But most people in my group like to roll, that is the way we do it.

Sometimes I want the heros to start out as heroes so I get them to roll 4D6, re-roll all 1s, roll 10 stats and pick the 6 best. That way the get a high average and nobody gets screwed (perceptual thing).

Othertimes I want them to become heros so I get them to roll standard dice 4D6 but give them a bonus stat point every 2 levels instead of 4.

In our group, instead of fixed or fully random HP generation, we allow re-rolls of low amounts. Those with 1D4 HP re-roll on a 1, 1D6 on 1-2, 1D8 on 1-3, 1D10 on a 1-4 and 1D12 on a 1-5. The way the wizard never genetes more hitpoints than the fighters or even the clerics, llet alone the barbarian.

 

[Maraxle]

OK, I give up. I am so tired of hearing "cookie cutter" referring to point buy characters. I do beleive those that say that either haven't ever actually tried point buy, or they just want to roll their dice and need some derogatory comment to throw at the point buy concept to support their emotional feeling.

I'm the one who said "cookie-cutter". And I HAVE tried point buy. In all the games I have tried it in, the parties have ended up basically the same. Big strong boring fighter with low charisma, super smart wizard-type with low charisma, exceptionally wise cleric, etc. In the games I've tried without it, my players have come up with interesting characters. Swashbuckler-type speedy fighters, knife-throwing bards, handsome but not super powerful wizards, etc. I like that kind of stuff. They seem to as well.

Your players may be different. Maybe your players come up with "concept" characters with point buy. Mine don't, so I use rolling.

 

[Thaumaturge]

Point buy.

I also enjoy the balance.

I usually give my players 32 points, 36 for humans. This helps alleviate the demi-humans nearly always having better point-buy stats.


Thaumaturge.

 

[heimdall]

Someone mentioned being old-school and therefore die-rolling, and I'm very much like that, too. Actually, if I ever get the time to switch to a point system with some options, a la Shadowrun, I may go with that. However, SR has options for magic-use, race, skills, attributes, and money and I'm only seeing race, money, and attributes (since skill points are determined by the class + int) so I haven't pursued this much.

 

[Negative Zero]

the game i play in offers both, and without exception, everyone has rolled. including the guys who never played more than 2 sessions. (yes, sadly we've had too many of those ) it's just more exciting. there's a palpable expectation when someone decided to roll their character stats.

some people try to act like they don't care, and will just roll straight off the bat, others will just be openly nervous/excited. but most people will often "test" out different dice to see which ones they'll use. the rest of the group practically gathers around the table for the experience. it's a beautiful thing.

point buy just seems too ... stiff to me. we had a singularly ... interesting experience recently. our newest player is a math major, and in about 8 minutes or so, he sat there with a pencil and paper and worked out the best possible spread he could get with the point buy method offered (40) and then the projected averages expected from rolling. bizarre!

rolling rules!

~NegZ

 

[Celtavian]

Re

I'll just give the honest reason why I don't like the current point buy system rather than arguing the benefits of either.

32 points should not be the maximum point buy. Heck, in my bodybuilding magazine there is a guy with 195 IQ who can bench 500 lbs. Reggie Jackson had a 160 IQ while still being one of the best hitting and fielding baseball players of his time. Arnold Swartzennegger was extremely strong, intelligent and charismatic all at the same time. He was from his youth. Leonardo Davinci was a great athlete, inventor, painter and just all around great man of his time. I can go on and on about people who lack for very little. They have all around good genetics, always did.

Basically what I am getting at, is that some real people exceed the 32 point maximum for heroic characters given in the PHB. If 32 points is the maximum, I would rather take my chances rolling.

At least if I roll, I have the chance of obtaining a genetically superior individual rather than having my character's genetics decided by the limit of the point buy system. I don't like this limitation, and I never have. It is too limiting and does not take into account people with extremely good genetics, which I feel the best adventuring stock would come from.

Even in books like Lord of the Rings, the heroic characters come from the best genetic stock of the best genetic stock. Aragorn is the best man of his age from a race men that were blended with elf blood and superior to begin with, or so Tolkien wrote. Frodo is perceived as an extraordinary hobbit amongst his own kind for not only his bravery but his intelligence and spirit as well. Gimli is an extraordinarily charismatic dwarf while also being quite strong and sturdy. Boromir was the best warrior in Gondor not just because he was high level, but his physical and mental traits were superior as well. Heroes are heroes, and they don't always fit the 32 point buy certain folks proclaim should be the maximum nor should they always exceed or even equal that maximum.

I honestly believe rolling better simulates the reality of genetics. Some people are born with poor genetics, some within a wide range of average, some with a few uniquely great genetic gifts, and some are all around gifted with astoundingly good genetics. Rolling gives a better chance of obtaining a group of characters with a varying genetic makeup that will even lead the players to choose concepts that fit those genetics or go against them to make a better story.