Point buy question

[Pseudonym]

I am starting a campaign soon, and giving my players the option for 32 point buy. Looking things over, stats start at 8 for zero points and go up from there. How would you handle players wanting to have stats lower than 8? Would they gain points? What sort of ratio would you recommend? Do you think it would "break" the point buy system allowing this?

Any insight is appreciated.

 

[Crothian]

If they want stats lower then 8, let them but don't give them anything for it.

 

[KarinsDad]

How would you handle players wanting to have stats lower than 8? Would they gain points? What sort of ratio would you recommend? Do you think it would "break" the point buy system allowing this?

I wouldn't allow it for points at all.

If a player wants to have an ability score lower than 8, there is one legal way: take an 8 or 9 score and take a race that has a -2 modifier. Hence, the modified score becomes 6 or 7.

If a player wants to roleplay a character with a score lower than 8 (or lower than 6 due to race), fine. Allow it.

But, don't give him point buy points for it.

The only reason for doing that min-maxing, not roleplaying. IMO.

 

[Darkness]

Analyze whether having a low ability score will be detrimental every now and then IYC. Think about how easy it is for a Wizard to get by with a 5 Str or a Barbarian with a 6 Int or 4 Cha. Consider how common ability score damage is. ('cause if a score drops to 0, you're out of the fight no matter your hp or other stats.)

If you find that it's not a very big problem, be very careful not to give them too many points back. Or even any.

Otherwise, a rate of about 1/2 - 1 point per point below 8 should work. Maybe with diminishing returns.

BTW, if your players are compulsive number-crunchers and rules-lawyers, be extra-careful or just don't do it.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

There are several issues that point towards not rewarding players that dump on stats.

First off, the DMG (in the modifying classes section) warns against allowing a boost to a character strength at the expense of worsening a character weakness. Players will avoid situations that their characters are weak at anyway. In this case, a 25pt buy fighter would worsen their str16 dex13 con15 int8 wis10 cha8 to str18 dex14 con16 int3 wis11 cha3. Such a character will avoid social situations and receives the same # of skills anyway.

Another issue is that some classes are ability score intensive. If you allow stat dumping, the classes with fewer ability requirements will become more powerful and thus more attractive. This may be desirable to the feel of a specific campaign but it has the effect of limiting choice, which is contrary to 3rd edition.

If I was going to allow stat dumping it would be at a disadvantageous 2:1 ratio and the 3 highest stats may not benefit nor may the boosted stat(s) equal the 3rd highest stat.

 

[Darkness]

str18 dex14 con16 int3 wis11 cha3. Such a character will avoid social situations and receives the same # of skills anyway.

Agreed. If most social situations can be avoided without a big problem IYC, reducing stats shouldn't give a big benefit (or even none).

IMC, the player would have to sit around doing almost nothing for hours on end. Wouldn't make me happy and I'd try to dissuade him from doing this but if he insisted, far be it from me to stop him.
He'd also have to ask other PCs to sell loot for him as getting the theoretical 1/2 market price would be a miracle with a 3 Int and Cha. Also, he'd stir up a lot of trouble in town simply by walking around. Being too dumb to comprehend the most simple things and horribly offensive is not a good combination. He could easily get into fights, win them, and then be very, very ill-equipped to explain what happened to the city watch.
Further, these deficiencies aren't exactly inobvious so long-term enemies would figure them out pretty quickly and exploit them to good effect. Even a small amount of ability score damage will put this guy out of action. (Int or Cha 0 = helpless.) Assassins would love this guy.

But if you spend most of your time kicking in dungeon doors and skinning slain dragons, these stats wouldn't be a very big drawback. Well, until you're hit with Int or Cha damage/drain, anyway.

 

[Pseudonym]

Thanks for the input. I was inclined to give a flat no, but I figured I'd toss it out to see what others thought.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I have my own take on the point buy and array methods for my campaign.

The legendary array is only used for generating high levl NPCs on the fly.

 

[Darkness]

I used something like that once. The PCs ended up with about two 18s each and the rest of the stats around 10.
It made maximum scores kind of the standard, which I didn't like, so I switched back to rolling soon. And that even though my players aren't normally min/maxers.

My more recent games use the usual D&D point-buy way (36 points).