Point Buy vs. Die Rolling Ability Scores

[frisbeet]

Let me restate the method I like to use. Granted, it's not an official method, but I think it offers the best of point buy and random generation. Besides, rolling multiple characters and selecting the best one isn't an official method either.

The method is based on the assumption--no, actuality--that everyone else in the D&D world draws from a 3d6 distribution. If this is the case (and it officially is), then 1 in 216 people will have an 18 strength. I think it's safe to assume that even fewer than 1 in 200 NPCs are adventurers.

So, why not marry these two statistics? Let every player have a single 18. The catch is they have to roll 3d6 for the other 5 scores, no rerolls, and no multiple character selection--unless you want your character to be a 1 in 400, 1 in 600, etc.

Alternatively, let them have two 16s. Roll 3d6 for the other 4 scores. You get the picture. The advantage of this method, I've found, is that everybody gets something, but there's still the feel of randomness to the rest of the character.

If you think this is a gross cheat, you'll be shocked to know I've even played it with a two 18s assignment method (1 in 46656 have an 18 Str, 18 Con). That was for a high, high challenge campaign, with half the party slaughtered by level 7. But they sure had fun with it. Of course that's the point: everybody having fun, even when Elliot steps on the pizza.

 

[Azlan]

Ability scores are so central to D&D that they shouldn't be left up to chance. Or at the very least, they should be sufficiently de-randomized to prevent huge power gaps.

Agreed. Why should one series of random rolls, at the outset, determine something that's going to affect your character for the entire campaign?

Of all those players who I've debated with about "point buy vs. dice roll" methods for generating ability scores, those who prefer the dice roll method seem to do so because, more than anything else, it's a personal preference, like choosing Coke over Pepsi. It seems to have little do with concrete logic, and it certainly doesn't hold much regard for game balance, fairness, and an even playing field.

Even seemingly logical arguments for the dice roll method, such as saying it better reflects reality or genetics or whatever, doesn't hold much water when you consider that player characters are not the common man; rather, they are heroes (or, as is the case with D&D, superheroes).

Above all, RPGs are meant to be fun, and while it may be fun to play a character who you got lucky with and rolled really good ability scores for, it's not much fun to play a character throughout an entire campaign who you happened to roll really poor ability scores for. (That is, unless you're a roleplaying masochist, or you really like gambling, or something.)

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. I had some funny campaigns with a statwise weak character and some boring campaigns with a rolled character above 70 points worth...

I don't think you can give general guidelines about that.

 

[Azlan]

Another thing: In these "Point Buy vs Dice Roll Methods" debates, I always see lots of alternative methods for the dice roll method, as if there weren't enough already given in the PH and the DM's Guide. Yet most of these alternative rolling (and re-rolling) methods get to be pretty convoluted. Which makes me wonder: If you're going to stack the odds so heavily in your favor, why even bother? Go with the point buy method!

 

[Azlan]

Hmm. I had some funny campaigns with a statwise weak character and some boring campaigns with a rolled character above 70 points worth...

I don't think you can give general guidelines about that.

My generalization is *not* that the point buy method is part of a foundation for a more interesting or intriguing campaign, as far as roleplaying or the storyline goes. If anything, my generalization is that the point buy method is part of a foundation for a more fair and balanced campaign.

 

[Azlan]

Originally posted by Dash Dannigan
Ahem, for those punks who don't like randomness and prefer the rigidity of point-buy system, why roll dice at all then? Just sit down and roll out the Ol' game mat and start moving those minis around playing chess, er a more systematic version of D&D with thousands of charts to look up and no die rolls.

For those of you who so adore the randomness and enjoy the surprise while creating your characters: Why stop with the dice roll method for generating your ability scores? Let the dice determine your race and class as well!

Who knows? You may end up with a halfling rogue with a Str 16, a Wis 17, a Dex 6, and an Int 7. Oh, boy! Wouldn't that be a hoot to play, for an entire campaign? And after playing an entire camaign with such a gimped character, imagine the bragging rights you'd have earned, to lend support to your "dice roll is better than point buy" argument.

 

[Crothian]

For those of you who so adore the randomness and enjoy the surprise while creating your characters: Why stop with the dice roll method for generating your ability scores? Let the dice determine your race and class as well!

Wow, that's just silly. And to reverse it, why don'y the pointbuyers switch to a game like Amber so dice are just gotten away from.

Okay, now that that is out of the way: Why are people so venomiuos against one of the attribute systems? I think the above shows that some people really can't seem to allow people to use which ever way they want and let it go at that.

And as to why some people like the die rolling method, we don't want equal characters. The classes are not all equal, the races are not all equal, the players playing the characters are not all equal, so I don't see why I should live under the veil that if the stats are all equal everything is all right. Second, the stats are more important low level then high level, and not as important as people tend to think. With good players and a good DM the attriubutes shouldn't matter as much. Of course that is only based on my experience so YMMV

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Another thing: In these "Point Buy vs Dice Roll Methods" debates, I always see lots of alternative methods for the dice roll method, as if there weren't enough already given in the PH and the DM's Guide. Yet most of these alternative rolling (and re-rolling) methods get to be pretty convoluted. Which makes me wonder: If you're going to stack the odds so heavily in your favor, why even bother? Go with the point buy method!

Yeah and there aren't any alternate point buys out there.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Hmm. I had some funny campaigns with a statwise weak character and some boring campaigns with a rolled character above 70 points worth...

I don't think you can give general guidelines about that.

No set of rules can guarantee a campaign will be fun, so your argument is irrelevant.

I can tell you from first hand experience that dice rolling can suck the fun out of a campaign. I haven't seen that problem with point buy. YMMV.

I am perfectly happy to play the squire or servant to another PC if there is a strong campaign reason to do so -- I just don't want that role thrust onto me by the dice.

 

[Azlan]

Wow, that's just silly. And to reverse it, why don'y the pointbuyers switch to a game like Amber so dice are just gotten away from.

Well, of course the example I gave is silly. It was *meant* to be silly.

But just because I don't want any randomness (i.e. unfairness) in my players creating their characters, doesn't mean I want to henceforth do away with all randomness, altogether. That's silly as well!

Besides, after you generate your ability scores, isn't the rest of the character-creation process more or less a "point buy" method? (That is, you're given a certain number of feats and skill points to work with.)

And as to why some people like the die rolling method, we don't want equal characters.

Oh, yes, *we* do!



Anyway, player characters *are* created equal, overall. (That is, with the exceptions that can be brought about by the dice roll method.) Sure, some characters are better in combat than others, and some are better using non-combat skills than others; some are better in dungeons; others are better in wilderness; others still, in cities. But overall, D&D characters are pretty equal. They're designed to be that way.