Point Buy vs. Die Rolling Ability Scores

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Same here Coyote. They're used to 2e and high stats.

 

[hong]

I prefer point buy, but unfortunately every time I try to force my players to use it they try to hang me. They hate point buy because they always get lower stats with it.

The reason you use point buy is to ensure _balanced_ stats across different players, not _lower_ stats. If what they're complaining about is that they can do better by rolling, just up the points they can have. I use 36 pts for my Brit 3E game, and noone's complaining.

I like it for the same reason. The stats will be more balanced and nobody can complain that others have better stats.

... and clearly, since you say that you like point buy because it's balanced, you would have no objection to this. Yes?

 

[Howling Coyote]

I already use 36 points, but they still think it limits them too much. They almost always get higher stats by rolling (sometimes too high for my liking). I specifically want the balance and some control over the stats.

 

[hong]

I already use 36 points, but they still think it limits them too much. They almost always get higher stats by rolling (sometimes too high for my liking).

Ah, in that case, you either have a bunch of cheating bastards for players, or you're too lenient in letting them reroll bad results. (I assume you're using the standard 4d6 drop 1 method.) My recommendation is to grow some enormous balls, the size that will barely fit in your trousers, and tell them exactly what to do. If they don't like it, well, someone else can always DM.

 

[bret]

The people who are used to 2e attributes should look again.

In 2e, a 16 Str gave what sort of bonus? +1 to hit and damage. Gee, that is a 12-13 Str now.

Really, a lot of the attributes only started to give bonuses as 15 or better. Now it only takes a 12 to get a bonus. There is a huge difference in the attribute bonus charts between the editions.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I explained the difference between 2e and 3e stats before. The thing is they like the competition between character stats (eg my p... Strength is bigger than yours) but it invariably causes trouble after a few sessions.

 

[Skaros]

Point buying, on the other hand is akin to making cookie cutter characters (say that fast, three times ). It may work if the only goal is to create a character which does well in combat (it seems that a lot of folks would like to run an LP model to determine what the optimum stats would be for each class, and run with that . . . while following the optimal progression of skill and feats to arrive at the most powerful character in the end). While I admit that I like to have a character develop into a powerful hero-type, the approach I see a lot of today's gamers taking is purely mechanical.
~E

So what you are really saying, perhaps, is that the people you game with aren't mature enough (game-wise) to do anything but optimally arrange their stats for some specific, over-used form of combat...

I don't know about you, but I don't even know the stats of the people at my table, in the game I run or the game I play in. What I see, that makes them interesting or not and different or not, isn't their stats. It is how they roleplay their characters.

Heck, even in combat I don't really see their stats...I see a much much large influence present based on their chosen class, weapons, armor, and feat progression.

Its great to like dice-rolling...we use it in one of the 2 games I'm involved in. However, to argue that dice rolling is 'better' than point-buy because point-buy makes cookie cutter (boring) characters seems pretty specious to me.

-Skaros

 

[Sagan Darkside]

I also don't understand the mentality that all characters must be created equally.

Welcome to the boards

The mentality is based off the understanding that this is a game- and my players would rather have characters that they want to play instead of settling for what the dice dictate.

I house ruled some variations in point buy (you could take fewer points to get an extra feat or two) and the players really like that since it expands their options. However- it has still kept all the characters in check with each other.

SD

 

[Crothian]

So, people seem to use point buy to stop the players from complaining about unfairness. Would you use dice if you had mature players who didn't complain? I know there are those who use point buy for other reasons and that's good. It's just using it because Bob always has the highest score sounds like you can't trust bob and are punishing everyone for it.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Would you use dice if you had mature players who didn't complain?

I did not implement it due to my players- I did it due to my concerns.

Point buy gives a solid foundation for the beginning of a campeign, and it becomes the tool I use to make npc's in the future.

I don't see what dice offers.

Randomness that better reflects reality?

I don't want realism- I want to play a game.

The possibility of challeging a player to try a new character?

That is my job in designing the world and the players decision if they want to take advantage of it.

SD