D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Tony Vargas]

I know OwlBears are part of 5E because they're on page 249 of the Monster Manual.

Even if they were omitted from the MM, they'd still be a part of D&D. ;P Just lacking 5e stats.

Rolling 3d6 to generate ability scores for NPCs? Not in any 5E book.

Maybe not explicitly, but the commoner entry is consistent with it. And what are you going to roll for ordinary NPCs when PCs and exceptional NPC use 4d6, drop the lowest? 2d6+3? 4d4? Well, you could, but, the clear down-grade is just 3d6.

Besides.
Tradition.

 

[Caliban]

Even if they were omitted from the MM, they'd still be a part of D&D. ;P Just lacking 5e stats.

Sure, in the sense that they are part of D&D history. Without 5e stats, they aren't part of 5e. Once someone creates 5e stats for them, they are part of 5e.

Maybe not explicitly, but the commoner entry is consistent with it. And what are you going to roll for ordinary NPCs when PCs and exceptional NPC use 4d6, drop the lowest? 2d6+3? 4d4? Well, you could, but, the clear down-grade is just 3d6.

Or just use the stats from the MM and not worry about how they were generated, because it doesn't matter. Because *I* certainly didn't roll 3d6 for them.

Besides.
Tradition.

Your tradition. Which applies to your games all you want.

For a new DM or player? Not a tradition. They would just use the stats from the commoner entry, and not know or care about the depth of history and tradition all those 10's carry with them. Because it's a fricken commoner with no name.

 

[Oofta]

Even if they were omitted from the MM, they'd still be a part of D&D. ;P Just lacking 5e stats.

Maybe not explicitly, but the commoner entry is consistent with it. And what are you going to roll for ordinary NPCs when PCs and exceptional NPC use 4d6, drop the lowest? 2d6+3? 4d4? Well, you could, but, the clear down-grade is just 3d6.

Besides.
Tradition.

So to save some typing ...

Summary:

• You keep insisting that everyone should know the rules from all previous games that had the label D&D. The the vast majority of people I've played with over the past few years have never played 1E. Out of dozens of people I can think of 1 or 2 others who have.
• You pick and choose one random aspect (roll 3d6) while ignoring things that don't support your argument.
• You say there are no rules for NPCs, but they've been pointed out many times. Starts on page 89 of the DMG.

Keep rinsing and repeating your statement all you want but the horse died a long time ago. Probably back in the 80s.

I figure if you can just keep posting the same thing over and over again, turnabout is fair play. I'm just being more efficient about it.

If you want I'm sure we could write a bot that just submitted the same post/response.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Sure, in the sense that they are part of D&D history.

Yes, and 5e is informed by that history, and seeking to evoke a particular era within it.

Your tradition

D&D's tradition.

For a new DM or player? Not a tradition.

Not right away. But when, however many seconds or minutes into their experience with the game, perhaps as they're rolling 4d6-drop-the-lowest for their stats, someone mentions that stats used to be rolled on 3d6 it probably won't come as too much of a shock to them...

 

[Caliban]

Yes, and 5e is informed by that history, and seeking to evoke a particular era within it.

Yes, they are evoking a 1e/2e "feel" with the 5e rules. That doesn't mean you have to (or even should) have specific knowledge of those editions in order to play. All that's included in the 5e books, you don't need to do any additonal research.

D&D's tradition.

What exactly is the point you are trying to make? Because just saying "tradition" over and over again has rendered the word meaningless to me.

Not right away. But when, however many seconds or minutes into their experience with the game, perhaps as they're rolling 4d6-drop-the-lowest for their stats, someone mentions that stats used to be rolled on 3d6 it probably won't come as too much of a shock to them...

I honestly have no idea what it is you are trying to say here. Mainly because...the scenario you are talking about simply doesn't happen for the majority of the new players I've encountered. They don't roll dice for their stats, at all. No one talks about the good old days of rolling 3d6 to make crippled characters and liking it. It just doesn't happen. Sorry.

 

[Oofta]

Yes, and 5e is informed by that history, and seeking to evoke a particular era within it.

D&D's tradition.

Not right away. But when, however many seconds or minutes into their experience with the game, perhaps as they're rolling 4d6-drop-the-lowest for their stats, someone mentions that stats used to be rolled on 3d6 it probably won't come as too much of a shock to them...

Which they probably follow up with "Gee, that was dumb. I'm glad we don't do that any more."

If it ever comes up. I suppose it's possible - it just never has in my experience.

Same way we ignore dwarves can only be fighters, at 10th level (?) fighting men automatically get hirelings and a keep, someone provokes an OA when they enter your threatened reach, skill challenges, so on and so forth.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Which they probably follow up with "Gee, that was dumb. I'm glad we don't do that any more."

Heh.

Same way we ignore dwarves can only be fighters, at 10th level (?)
fighting men automatically get hirelings and a keep,

Not s'much, no. Dwarves can be fighters, and reasonably good ones. Noble background gets some token followers.

someone provokes an OA when they enter your threatened reach, skill challenges, so on and so forth.

Those might come as more of a surprise.

Yes, they are evoking a 1e/2e "feel" with the 5e rules. That doesn't mean you have to (or even should) have specific knowledge of those editions in order to play.

Just to appreciate all that feel.

Mainly because...the scenario you are talking about simply doesn't happen for the majority of the new players I've encountered. They don't roll dice for their stats, at all.

Hey! It's the default!

What exactly is the point you are trying to make? Because just saying "tradition" over and over again has rendered the word meaningless to me.

View attachment 83312

 

[Oofta]

Not s'much, no. Dwarves can be fighters, and reasonably good ones.

But they have other options as well. Unlike OD&D

Noble background gets some token followers.

Not even close. I want my keep, and followers. None of this "you have to earn it" BS or "RP". I have an old book that says that at 10th level I get a keep and followers.

Or is that no longer assumed to be part of the game?

 

[Caliban]

I will say, this particular point of debate may say more about the gaming environment we play in, than anything about the rules or D&D traditions.

Most of my D&D play time for the last 20 years has been in one form of Organized Play environment or another (Living City, Living Greyhawk, Living Arcanis, Living Forgotten Realms (or whatever it was in 4e), Pathfinder Society, and most recently Adventure League). Most of my gaming is at the local gaming store or at a convention. Rolled stats are never an option. NPC's all come from pre-written modules.

The things you consider "tradition" just don't come up in that environment. So while they may indeed be traditional for you and the friends you normally game with, they aren't tradition for the majority of players that I'm familiar with. They aren't even tradition for me, and I started playing D&D with the Red Box and soft plastic dice that you had to color the numbers in with crayon.

 

[Oofta]

I will say, this particular point of debate may say more about the gaming environment we play in, than anything about the rules or D&D traditions.

Most of my D&D play time for the last 20 years has been in one form of Organized Play environment or another (Living City, Living Greyhawk, Living Arcanis, Living Forgotten Realms (or whatever it was in 4e), Pathfinder Society, and most recently Adventure League). Most of my gaming is at the local gaming store or at a convention. Rolled stats are never an option. NPC's all come from pre-written modules.

Same here. I started with home games, but once I used the point buy system from Raven's Bluff games I never went back to rolling. Not that we were ever particularly "legal" when it came to rolling in the first place.

The things you consider "tradition" just don't come up in that environment. So while they may indeed be traditional for you and the friends you normally game with, they aren't tradition for the majority of players that I'm familiar with. They aren't even tradition for me, and I started playing D&D with the Red Box and soft plastic dice that you had to color the numbers in with crayon.

Same here. I still have my old dice set somewhere. The D20 is basically a round ball because the edges all wore off. That doesn't mean I expect anyone to know anything other than what's in the 5E basic rules.