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D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
16,14,12,13,11,10,9? Still not quite the standard array, still close. There's more rounding up than down, though, so 15 and 8 on the ends wouldn't be terribly unreasonable. Hmmm...
Interesting - a 7-stat line. Tony, are you trying to slide Comeliness back into the game without anyone noticing? :)

Oofta said:
I do wonder why they chose to only go up to 15 instead of 16. It's an easy enough tweak to do. Maybe just to discourage everyone from thinking they "have to have" an 18 at 1st level?
Well, assuming they did the same math you've done (and I really wonder if they did) they may have been looking more at how quickly a stat can get to 20 as the game goes on.

Tony Vargas said:
This is just a personal impression from running too many 1st-level intro games, but random generation can give you one or two particularly good PCs in a party, who can then help 'carry' the party. Array, you're all 'just OK,' and no one's carrying anyone....
And if those are just one-shots, the long-term balance doesn't get a chance to kick in - the balance where the character(s) carrying the party do just a bit too much and die, leaving the 'lesser lights' to carry on... :)

Lanefan
 

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Razamis

First Post
That statement made by @Razamis is provably false. 4d6 drop the lowest is not just the first stat creation method, it's the default method with the other two specifically being optional rules. There can be no rational assumption that people are going to use optional rules, and it's stupid to balance the game around optional rules. If his statement were true, the array would be the default, and point buy and rolling would have been the optional methods.

Wrong.

The default is 4d6 drop lowest OR standard array, whichever you choose. The standard array is even the example chosen for "Building Bruenor: Step 3". Only the point buy system is the optional variant.

The average rolls from a player using 4d6 drop the lowest, will be roughly equal to the standard array. So the two official methods for generating characters more often then not gives you the standard array. The game is balanced on this assumption. This means that anything below the standard array is underpowered for what the content is fine tuned for, and anything above the standard array is overpowered for what the content is fine tuned for.

Rolling stats more often then not will not break the game, it will give you the standard array equivalent, in which case just use the standard array. The other options is that it will create an under-powered or over-powered character, and neither are desirable for most players. If you wanted to play a specifically under-powered or over-powered character, then why roll for it, just talk to your DM and adjust stats to make the character that makes sense for your RP idea.

Rolling for stats is simply a hold over from older versions of D&D when the game was newish and before game designers had learned from previous mistakes. That is not to say that they don't make mistakes today.

If you play a character that is above the standard array, or worse yet, if you have a party of players that are above the standard array, you are not getting the true experience the D&D5e designers intended when they balanced the monsters that you will be fighting. Everything will be less dangerous. There will be more work for the DM to adjust encounters upwards as the books suggestions will be off by however much your characters stats are off from the standard array.

Additionally most tables that I have played at that insisted on rolling for stats, usually had silly rules like "rerolls 1s once" or "reroll the entire set if there are not two or more 15s", which throws the average rolls off above the standard array.

The best choice is to use the standard array and experience encounters at their full strength, and make life easier on your DM. Rolling stats takes 30 seconds, and playing your character will require you to roll dice so often that not doing those first six rolls really should not be an issue for you for a better and more finely tuned experience.
 
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Tony Vargas

Legend
And if those are just one-shots, the long-term balance doesn't get a chance to kick in - the balance where the character(s) carrying the party do just a bit too much and die, leaving the 'lesser lights' to carry on... :)
They are one shots, so the dynamic doesn't have a chance to go from grateful to resentful. ;) For instance, a PC elf archer started with a DEX of 20, it gave them not just strong offense, but more consistent offense - all they had to do was protect her (vaguely, her AC was good, obviously) and the monsters would go down pretty quick.

But, thanks to ASIs, in a long-term campaign such disparities do resolve, in primary/highest-impact stats, eventually. (Back in the day I let players who rolled below a threshold of total stat points add points as they leveled until the 'caught up' - I don't think it was an unusual variant...)
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
If you play a character that is above the standard array, or worse yet, if you have a party of players that are above the standard array, you are not getting the true experience the D&D5e designers intended when they balanced the monsters that you will be fighting. Everything will be less dangerous. There will be more work for the DM to adjust encounters upwards as the books suggestions will be off by however much your characters stats are off from the standard array.

And remember, the only goal when playing D&D is to get the "true experience the D&D 5e designers intended".

Anything else and you are playing D&D wrong.
 

Oofta

Legend
...
But, thanks to ASIs, in a long-term campaign such disparities do resolve, in primary/highest-impact stats, eventually. (Back in the day I let players who rolled below a threshold of total stat points add points as they leveled until the 'caught up' - I don't think it was an unusual variant...)

After the campaign is half over perhaps the ability scores come close. By that point the person with high ability scores has taken other feats or shored up any weaknesses they may have had.

If you like uneven capabilities for your PCs that's fine, just call a spade a spade. Unless you use some kind of house rule, there is no "catching up".
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
After the campaign is half over perhaps the ability scores come close. By that point the person with high ability scores has taken other feats or shored up any weaknesses they may have had.

If you like uneven capabilities for your PCs that's fine, just call a spade a spade. Unless you use some kind of house rule, there is no "catching up".
Oh, yeah, it never achieves actual balance or anything (Gygax forfend!), the disparity just becomes less acute as it shifts from primary stat to most-desirable feat, to nice-to-have feat, to tertiary stats... (but 5e is only going to 'spotlight balance' or resource-pressure-balance, at best, to the extent that the DM forces it to, anyway, so it's just a somewhat different application of force to deal with the additional, but decreasing-with-level, imbalance).
 

Yardiff

Adventurer
Wrong.

The default is 4d6 drop lowest OR standard array, whichever you choose. The standard array is even the example chosen for "Building Bruenor: Step 3". Only the point buy system is the optional variant.

The average rolls from a player using 4d6 drop the lowest, will be roughly equal to the standard array. So the two official methods for generating characters more often then not gives you the standard array. The game is balanced on this assumption. This means that anything below the standard array is underpowered for what the content is fine tuned for, and anything above the standard array is overpowered for what the content is fine tuned for.

Rolling stats more often then not will not break the game, it will give you the standard array equivalent, in which case just use the standard array. The other options is that it will create an under-powered or over-powered character, and neither are desirable for most players. If you wanted to play a specifically under-powered or over-powered character, then why roll for it, just talk to your DM and adjust stats to make the character that makes sense for your RP idea.

Rolling for stats is simply a hold over from older versions of D&D when the game was newish and before game designers had learned from previous mistakes. That is not to say that they don't make mistakes today.

If you play a character that is above the standard array, or worse yet, if you have a party of players that are above the standard array, you are not getting the true experience the D&D5e designers intended when they balanced the monsters that you will be fighting. Everything will be less dangerous. There will be more work for the DM to adjust encounters upwards as the books suggestions will be off by however much your characters stats are off from the standard array.

Additionally most tables that I have played at that insisted on rolling for stats, usually had silly rules like "rerolls 1s once" or "reroll the entire set if there are not two or more 15s", which throws the average rolls off above the standard array.

The best choice is to use the standard array and experience encounters at their full strength, and make life easier on your DM. Rolling stats takes 30 seconds, and playing your character will require you to roll dice so often that not doing those first six rolls really should not be an issue for you for a better and more finely tuned experience.

Are you also suggesting that since the encounter stuff in the books is base off of a group of 4 PCs that you should only have 4 PC tables ever?
 




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