Point buy

[lukelightning]

The official D&D 3.X rule of thumb is: If the sum of your ability modifiers total less than +1, or your highest score is less than 13, you may reroll.

But why can't you just re-roll if you want for whatever reason? The character hasn't even been "born" yet. What is the DM going to do if you say "screw it, two 4's in a row, I'm making a new character!"

 

[wayne62682]

Huh... interesting idea... I'll have to experiment with this. Thanks Zog, anyone else tried anything like this?

My group almost always uses the x amount of points, 1-for-1 basis when we use point buy (that or we roll, typically the standard 4d6 drop lowest, but occasionally 5d6 drop two lowest). We normally use 78 points, but our latest campaign used a whopping 90 (including an extra +1 since we start at 5th level).

I have honestly never played a game using the PB as written in the books; my group doesn't like it, but I'm curious as to how it would work out using a 28 or 30 point buy; it seems like it would give you enough choice to be heroic and not be gimped if you play a character with MAD, but not overpowering.

In any event, I think the 25-point buy baseline is trash and doesn't accurately reflect a thing. I would play under it (hell, I'd play with the Elite Array), but it's not my cup of tea.

 

[Pbartender]

But why can't you just re-roll if you want for whatever reason?

Because then you might as well be using point buy.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Well, there's always exceptions...

But Con and Cha on a ranged combatant aren't very telling. I'd expect, though I could be wrong, that he had a 17 in Dexterity, and two more 10s and an 11 left over.

I think Con would be. Not dying is kind of important. He was nearly lunched by jaguars in his first encounter and shot once and stabbed repeatedly - with poisoned weapons - in his second encounter. He lost consciousness and was in the unenviable situation (because he took Con damage) of having to roll above a natural 20 in order to make the DC 20 save to stabilize. (Obviously a natural 20 would still have saved him.)

Charisma came up too, but not in combat.

The last two ranged DnD characters I've played have both had Con 14. I think it's silly to expect that you'll never get shot, never get hit by a spell, and never get ambushed or otherwise melee'd. The first one nearly died repeatedly too ... good thing I got to decide on a fairly tough character.

Yup, it does... And in general, the trend holds true for any ability score generation method in which you get to choose where all your ability scores end up, whether it's point buy or 4d6 drop the lowest and arrange as desired.

This should be repeated more often I prefer point buy to "roll and choose" because, unlike just about any other dice roll (except hit points), you only make the roll once per character, but the ramifications last until the campaign is over or the character dies or is retired. That's a long time.

Which why I prefer the "Organic" method which leaves most of the dice-rolled ability scores in order, but allows you to swap a high score into the key ability you want it (or need it) in.

No, I think I'll leave the decision in the hands of the PCs. What if they wanted Charisma, even though it didn't make them more uber ... like the above mentioned gunslinger? Obviously he would put high highest stat into Dex, but if he rolled a "6" for his Charisma, he would be screwed (his concept, although not in combat situations). Sometimes character concepts work well with lots of moderate stats rather than a high stat and a bunch of low ones... you can't control the dice.

 

[Lanefan]

I hate any randomness in character creation, or leveling (so use fixed HP).

IMO, if you roll, a system designed to create inequality among characters, you dont get to complain about characters being more powerful than others.

Which leaves you with a bland bunch of characters, at least stat-wise. Inequality through random chance is not a bad thing in and of itself; far worse is built-up inequalities through what some might call powergaming.

Oh, and I wouldn't use point-buy in my game if I was paid to.

That said, one question about the poll: x-number of points starting from what base? I've known some people to use base-8, others base-7; someone here suggested base-0, and so on.

Lanefan

 

[lukelightning]

Because then you might as well be using point buy.

Exactly. Nothing prevents you from scrapping a character and re-rolling, so you might as well go to point-buy.

 

[Pbartender]

What if they wanted Charisma, even though it didn't make them more uber ... like the above mentioned gunslinger? Obviously he would put high highest stat into Dex, but if he rolled a "6" for his Charisma, he would be screwed (his concept, although not in combat situations).

Well then, according to the rules I specified for ability generation, you can choose the 6 Charisma to be the one you reroll. If the reroll doesn't satisfy you, then you still have the opportunity to swap your Charisma score with any other ability score.

Here's an example I just rolled up to demonstrate:

1. The initial dice rolls are:
Str: 14 Dex: 16 Con: 17 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 9

2. Rerolling the Charisma score:
Str: 14 Dex: 16 Con: 17 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 13

3. Then, switching the Constitution and Charisma scores:
Str: 14 Dex: 16 Con: 13 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 17


If you still don't like it, then turn those stats into an NPC for me, and start over:

Crazy Zeke
Str: 9 Dex: 14 Con: 16 Int: 11 Wis: 7 Cha: 13

Crazy Zeke is an crotchety old hermit who wanders the world in his spare time. He is spry and as healthy as a horse, though he's a little scrawny and is obviously a few arrows short of a quiver. The players might meet him anywhere, and anywhere he meets them he knows the local area like the back of his hand. He's an excellent guide, survivalist and tracker, and can generally lead the PC's to anywhere they need to go for a nominal fee.

 

[Lanefan]

Is there any rule that says "once you start making up a character and roll stats you must keep the character?"

If I was rolling stats and got 6, 8, 15, 12, 4, I'd say "he died in birth" and start a new character, rinse, repeat, until I got stats I liked.

Don't know about 3.5, but the 3.0. DMG has a rule (can't remember if it's optional) saying that if your net bonuses add to less than 0 you can start over. Your guy here would need an 18 on the last roll to avoid this, I think.

I have a similar thing in my game, that I call "DM's perogative"...if your stat average is less than 10 or your highest stat is 13 or less you can scrap and start over if you want. That said, some of the most successful characters in my game have started out with less-than-stellar stats...

Lanefan

 

[Pbartender]

Nothing prevents you from scrapping a character and re-rolling...

Except perhaps your DM. My point is, if the DM isn't bothered by you endlessly scrapping and rerolling a character's abilities, he should just save you the time and trouble and use point buy.

For that matter, if that's your attitude toward dice-rolling stats, Luke, and your DM doesn't bother to watch you roll stats, why not just pick six ability scores out of thin air for your character... How's your DM ever to know that you didn't roll them up?

 

[Dagger75]

Well then, according to the rules I specified for ability generation, you can choose the 6 Charisma to be the one you reroll. If the reroll doesn't satisfy you, then you still have the opportunity to swap your Charisma score with any other ability score.

Here's an example I just rolled up to demonstrate:

1. The initial dice rolls are:
Str: 14 Dex: 16 Con: 17 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 9

2. Rerolling the Charisma score:
Str: 14 Dex: 16 Con: 17 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 13

3. Then, switching the Constitution and Charisma scores:
Str: 14 Dex: 16 Con: 13 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 17


If you still don't like it, then turn those stats into an NPC for me, and start over:

Reminds of an old Knights of the Dinner Table comic were Bob and El-Ravager rolled over 1000 characters up one weekend before they got the stats they wanted.