Points of Light approach to setting

[Ydars]

I agree with some of what you say, but does this mean that much adventuring in PoL settings is going to be travelling vast distances? I had thought that WOTC wanted to avoid this scenario.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

So how do we build realistic settings given these constraints?

Ok, I think I gotcha, you aren't asking for justifications of PoL as a whole, you're asking how do we protect individual points of light?

Well, sir, that is an idea for a Kick A thread.

Hmm, I've got some pocket ideas to throw out there, but let me try for something a little systematic first.

Could we say that in order to describe a Point you have to describe how it survives in light of:

Heroic Threats

Paragon Threats

&

Epic Threats

Since that's most likely the basic organization of threats within the game?

 

[Harshax]

I want isolated Inns to be credible in my world.

Fortified Inns are totally viable as a Point of Light - because of the adventurers. It also gives the DM some outstanding hooks for patrons, and control over his economy. Imagine a fortified inn between two semi-stable points of light. The DM can steer the party toward one of the two towns this inn bridges, when a seasonal caravan is overdue for several days. Travelers can come and go to give the settings a little dynamism. If you don't want your party to be constantly reliant on a sage, you can create a traveling monk who is criss-crossing the world trying to recover knowledge. He shows up every once in a while to give the party necessary clues, then he is off on his own. Rescuing him would have incentives of its own as well. You can also control access to equipment, magic, potions etc, by making them part of the caravans that frequently stop at the inn. I like this idea so much, I'm definitely making a fortified inn the party's home base.

With monsters, this is difficult and needs something more than "the village is well armed". This might be OK against Kobolds but how about big monsters, like a giant?

Just because there is a village and a giant, doesn't necessarily mean that their must be conflict. Particularly if the village is far from the mountains, or there is a tribe of orcs in the forest between them, or if the giant's brother was killed the last time they attempted to extort the village by a group of adventures a few years back.

Now I know that people will say that monsters are rare and that they may not necessarily attack PoLs etc, but the fact remains that, because of the way the game is played, they are NOT that rare. For example, at high level, players could be encountering 4 large groups of monsters in a 24 hour period. If this is extrapolated to the world, this means that there are alot of monsters.

I don't really see that as a problem. It isn't like all the monsters are coaligned against the points of light. The gnomes have to deal with kobolds, the kobolds with orcs, the orcs with giants, the giants with dragons. When everything is in equilibrium, the orcs, giants, kobolds, or gnomes have enough time to go cause trouble for that point of light. If some meddling adventurers wipe out the kobolds in the hopes of protecting a point of light, it's up to the DM to show those pesky kids that the bigger can of wyrms are the Wyrms the kobolds were placating.

I see running a Point of Light campaign as putting a couple of drops of food coloring in oil, then shaking vigorously, until it's all uniform color. That's the point where the characters are ready for the paragon path - when the mundane (levels 1 - 10) threats have been contained, or driven off, and the threat behind the threat is revealed.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I agree with some of what you say, but does this mean that much adventuring in PoL settings is going to be travelling vast distances? I had thought that WOTC wanted to avoid this scenario.

I don't see why, they simply made it so you don't have to travel vast distances to find monsters. So if you wish too you can still travel vast distances, hell my campaign is going to have a lot of that. With lots of road-side encounters, and episodic content along the way as they come across things.

 

[Fobok]

I don't see why, they simply made it so you don't have to travel vast distances to find monsters. So if you wish too you can still travel vast distances, hell my campaign is going to have a lot of that. With lots of road-side encounters, and episodic content along the way as they come across things.

Agreed. I think a PoL style setting would encourage you to stick near home at the early levels, but once you start getting near level 10 I imagine roaming will be completely viable. (How are you going to face kingdom-level threats at Paragon level if you never see the kingdom?)

 

[Ydars]

This thread is generating some interesting stuff! I am enjoying myself.

I love the idea of breaking the problems up into Heroic, Paragon and Epic tiers as well.

As Dr Strangemonkey says, I am asking how do we justify the existance of an individual PoL (i.e. the PCs home base), because this will have serious believeability issues if we take the following points into account;

1) PoLs are generally small and some are tiny e.g. an Inn.

2) Most PoLs are not armed camps full of levelled NPCs; the whole point is that the setting must focus attention on the actions of the PCs, not on Elminster et al.

3) Monsters are NOT rare; they are common, although they may have problems with each other as well as the PoL.

4) Monsters are CLOSE to the PoL; this is also a design conceit of the setting for Heroic tier monsters.

The equilibrium argument is interesting but the thing about equilibria is that they tend not to persist. Sooner or later, the balance shifts and one or other party ends up on top. For a PoL this probably means destruction.

I want us to find as many creative ways to do this as possible.

 

[Scipio202]

Islands of light?

This would only work for certain campaign tones, but what if the world is mostly islands and archipelagos rather than big continents. Lots of nasty sea monsters keep islands from trading too much, but they won't attack villages that are too inland. Additionally, each island can have it's own particular mix of land-based monsters. The PCs start on an island with their homebase PoL and a mix of level-appropriate monsters. As the campaign progresses they have reasons to venture outward, and the new islands can have higher level monsters.

 

[Ydars]

Great one Scipio! This hadn't occured to me but your right; maybe the sea is the medium for many monsters and they simply can't get onto land.

How about generalising this to say that, many monsters are tied to specific locations; perhaps the Fey cannot move far from areas where the Feywild overlaps with this world. Similarly for some monsters and the Shadowfell.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

As well as the Far Realm, also I think with areas were pockets of the Feywild, Shadowfell and Far Realm have seeped into the World you will know.

Feywild - As you pass abandoned villages, you notice growth covering everything from the houses, fences and trees to the implements of daily life. Strange patterns of stone cover doorways and small mounds of dirt covered in moss seem to litter the ground.

Shadowfell - Lightning arcs across the sky as you ride past rows of dead or dying trees. Grey and rotting leaves cover the ground; causing the horses to slip and grow harried as they cross it. The leaves let off a stench only less foul then those of the undead that moan and wander across the nearby hill, their blank eyes occasionally lit up by the flash of lightning.

Far Realm - The buzzing in your ears soon begin to grow louder like some annoying insect. Your head and eyes throb as you continue to walk through the forest. First you saw only patches of fur, then more parts of animals. The first thing you came across was a squirrel its form twisted and hideous you watched it climb up the twisting and writhing tree, with sharp tentacles that came forth from his mouth.

 

[TrainedMunkee]

Whilst I agree that there are parallels with the PoL setting in history, the fact that you have monsters running around makes a serious difference IMHO, and this is something that needs dealing with. I want isolated Inns to be credible in my world. With monsters, this is difficult and needs something more than "the village is well armed". This might be OK against Kobolds but how about big monsters, like a giant?

Now I know that people will say that monsters are rare and that they may not necessarily attack PoLs etc, but the fact remains that, because of the way the game is played, they are NOT that rare. For example, at high level, players could be encountering 4 large groups of monsters in a 24 hour period. If this is extrapolated to the world, this means that there are alot of monsters.

Take for instance, a single adult Dragon. Such a creature, if actively trying to acquire a hoard, could level cities and towns across an area the size of a continent. Villagers, no matter how good in combat are not heros and nor are the town guard. Since one of the conceits of PoLs is that adventurers and levelled classes are rare, this takes away the idea that all settlements are overflowing with spellcasters etc.

So how do we build realistic settings given these constraints?

First of all this is a fantasy game you will have to suspend reality a little. For the sake of immersion the setting will have to be believable.

The dragon isn't going to be concerned with the village, she will be concerned with the group of giants that you mentioned. Look at it as an ecosystem. If it wasn't in balance, it would cease to exist. The villagers have just enough firepower to keep the weaker monsters at bay, if they didn't the village would cease to exist. The one time the giant/dragon balance is thrown out of whack, the giants are eliminated, possibly the PCs kill them, the dragon decides to attack the village. The dragon wanted a little fun and some crunchy PC races. Guess what the PCs are high enough level to discourage the dragon. I'm throwing a POL academy into my setting that trains all hero wannabes.