Poison DC and HD

[Dark Dragon]

In the MM is written that the DC for a save against poison depends on one half of the HD plus CON-bonus of the poisonous creature (e.g. a huge viper: 4 HD, CON 13 => DC is 13). If a druid with 15 HD uses his wild shape to become a huge viper and bites an opponent. Is the poison DC now 18 (15/2 + CON-bonus +1 = 18)? I'm referring to wild shape version in the MoW, so a poisonous bite is effective.

 

[pontus]

The druid's new scorcs and faculties are average ones for the species into which she has transformed. She cannot, for example, turn herself into a wolf with Strength of 20. Likewise, she cannot change into a bigger or more powerful version of a creature (or a smaller or weaker version).

I don't think so. Having a higher poison DC would count as being more powerful, no?

Anyway, a 15th level druid of any of the standard player classes does not have 15 hd, just 15 levels.

 

[Christian]

I don't think so. A druid who wildshapes into, say, a bear, doesn't take her hit dice & look at the advancement rules to see what a bear of that number of hit dice should have (for Strength, Constitution, etc.). She's just a 'normal' bear with a lot of extra hit points ... Likewise for other hit-die based special abilities. She'll have the abilities of a standard critter of that type, with no adjustment for having more (or fewer!) hit dice than a genuine animal.

 

[Dark Dragon]

I don't think so. Having a higher poison DC would count as being more powerful, no?

That's how I'd rule it, but the rules seem to be unclear.

Anyway, a 15th level druid of any of the standard player classes does not have 15 hd, just 15 levels.

Well..yes, from one point of view. Sometimes hd and levels are the same (see Sleep, Circle of Death), sometimes they differ (a troll with 7 drd levels has 6 hd and 7 levels, which could be accounted for 13 hd...you see my problem... *scratch*).

Anyway, that's another problem. Thanks for your answers!

 

[Stalker0]

I've got to disagree with most of the people on this thread. I think the MM makes a distinction between a normal constricter and a giant constricter considering it has two seperate entries for it.

While you only get average stats and abilities, you would get them for the giant constricter.

Otherwise, you only get like 3 new animals with the huge wildshape ability, and there almost all aquatic. Doesn't seem like a lot of bang for your buck?

But that asside, if there's a distinction between a normal animal and a dire animal, which is just a more powerful version of the smaller animal, then I've got no problem saying you can morph into a huge animal and get the huge animal benefits.

 

[Christian]

Are we talking about the same thing, Stalker? We're looking at vipers, not constrictors; and the Huge viper in the MM has 4 hit dice. (The Large viper has only 3 ...) Now, if we were talking about a druid able to wildshape into Gargantuan creatures (i.e. an epic-level druid), I'd say she could take the shape of a minimum-hit die Gargantuan viper, which would have 7 hit dice and a higher poison save DC.

The druid can pick her size on variably-sized animals, but her abilities will always be based on the physical attributes and hit dice of the lowest-hit-die example of that creature of that size. For example, I don't see any reason that an eighth-level druid couldn't wildshape into a Large wolf, which would have different stats from the base wolf entry in the MM (higher Str and Con, lower Dex, lower size AC adjustment and higher natural armor). But the high-level druid can't wildshape into a '6 hit die' Huge viper to get a couple extra points on that poison DC. And she certainly can't use her own hit-die total to calculate the DC.

[edited for grammar]

 

[Destil]

Wildshape refers to pollymorph self, pollymorph self dosn't let you use poison from the creature you turn into, because any part of you that seperates from your body reverts to it's original form (so the'd mosrly have siliva in their wound, not poison).

 

[Dark Dragon]

Wildshape refers to pollymorph self, pollymorph self dosn't let you use poison from the creature you turn into, because any part of you that seperates from your body reverts to it's original form (so the'd mosrly have siliva in their wound, not poison).

Nope, Wild Shape does not refer to Polymorph self anymore. The version in the Masters of the Wild overrides the PHB's version. Wild Shape has become its own power, not a copy of a spell. Extraordinary abilities (including poison) are available to wild shaped druids.

 

[Destil]

Nope, Wild Shape does not refer to Polymorph self anymore. The version in the Masters of the Wild overrides the PHB's version. Wild Shape has become its own power, not a copy of a spell. Extraordinary abilities (including poison) are available to wild shaped druids.

Well, that's a suprise. Is this going to become offical eratta, or is just a suggestion? Will it be added to the PHB eratta?

 

[shilsen]

Well, that's a suprise. Is this going to become offical eratta, or is just a suggestion? Will it be added to the PHB eratta?

The description of Wild Shape in MotW specifically states that it supersedes the PHB version. Just like the T&B version of Polymorph Other/Self says that it is now the official version & not the PHB version. Whether the changes will actually appear in errata is another matter.