Poisons? You're kidding right?

[The Little Raven]

As suggested by someone above perhaps setting up poisons to follow the damage track like diseases do might make them a bit more lethal.

I think it's best to see them in action before making summary judgments. I mean, summary judgment after 3e's launch told us that the Monk was incredibly overpowered... which is a giggle-worthy claim these days.

I think combined with the powers that will be used in addition to this poison would make it pretty damned mean, though I'm not entirely sure that would merit the cost of it. That's a question for actual play to answer.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Remember, "epic tier" means you're not buying this stuff in the local market. You're winding through the back alleys of Sigil or the City of Brass, trying to find the one shady guy in the Multiverse who knows how to get his hands on the venom milked from the tail of a pit fiend.

 

[Henry]

Actually, the Torkon discussion will go more like:

DM:Torkon takes 15 damage.

Player:Huh? Do I get a save?

DM:Yep, next round.

Player:I rolled a 5.

DM:The poison ends.

The assassin jumps out of the closet and yells, "THAT'S IT!?!?! 150 grand and THAT'S FREAKING IT!!???"

Player: Torkon unlimbers his Axe and says, "Yep -- that's it... for you...."

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Well, I think for THAT cost a more realistic, fun and scary effect would be:
-5 saves vs this poison
weakness
15hp rd 1, 30hp rd 2, 45 hp rd 3, 60 rd 4...etc, hehe
progressive poison = scary!

Also, at higher levle, poisons should, when appropriate, have nasty saving throw penalties. This is appropriate given cost, IMHO.


In my long running homebrew campaign, there was a specific poison players only encountered twice in 20 year sof RL play, but they were scared of it, as it was ultra nasty, used by the campaigns most feared assassins.

 

[direkobold]

DM: As Torkon finishes his meal, the world goes hazy. He collapses to the floor. Torkon, take 5,000 points of poison damage.
Joe, player of Torkon: WHAT???
DM: Torkon ate cyanide. Enough to kill an elephant, in fact. It was in the pudding.
Joe: What are you talking about? I should have tasted it and stopped eating!
DM: Cyanide is tasteless, duh.
Joe: Torkons a dwarf, I should be resistant.
DM: Right, you get +5 to your saving throw to avoid taking 5,000 points of poison damage again next round.
Joe: This is stupid!
DM: No, its realistic. Cyanide is tasteless, and it kills you. Torkon ate cyanide, he didn't notice, and now he's dead.
Joe: There aren't any poisons in the DMG that do that much damage! You made that up just to kill Torkon!
DM: No, I didn't, and I take serious offense to your suggestion that I'm picking on you. The DMG doesn't have poisons that do that much damage because the DMG is based on wussy notions of "balance" and "fair play," instead of hardbitten realism. I play MANLY dungeons and dragons, and in my game, poison kills you.
Joe: This is stupid.
DM: Tough.

It's precisely because of balance and fairplay that I bring the point up. I want the most powerful poison in the book which as other posters said you have to go to some secret place on another plan, to even find to strike fear in the hearts of the players. That seems balanced, that seems fair.

And seriously this is a ridiculously over the top straw man...

 

[direkobold]

Actually, the Torkon discussion will go more like:

DM:Torkon takes 15 damage.

Player:Huh? Do I get a save?

DM:Yep, next round.

Player:I rolled a 5.

DM:The poison ends.

The assassin jumps out of the closet and yells, "THAT'S IT!?!?! 150 grand and THAT'S FREAKING IT!!???"

Player: Torkon unlimbers his Axe and says, "Yep -- that's it... for you...."

Exactly.

 

[am181d]

Y'all are missing something fairly obvious: By epic level, characters are shopping from otherworldly creatures in the City of Brass' Great Bazaar. They're not going to find epic level poisons around the corner at the local apothecary. You don't need to worry about fitting epic level poisons into the regular campaign world's economy.

 

[Mort_Q]

Better not miss.

I don't know what the average FORT defense is for a level appropriate monster, but +28 sounds pretty impressive.

[edit] What sort of powers affect saves at that level? I mean, at level 25 is that really a lot of gold?

 

[pemerton]

Remember, "epic tier" means you're not buying this stuff in the local market. You're winding through the back alleys of Sigil or the City of Brass, trying to find the one shady guy in the Multiverse who knows how to get his hands on the venom milked from the tail of a pit fiend.

Right.

Also, isn't the proper comparison for this a Potion of comparable level? Is the Pit Toxin looks likely to have a comparable effect on an encounter to a Potion of Life (ie making the Potion unnecessary because the encounter ends more quickly)? If not, it's probably overpriced.

 

[Eldorian]

Poisons have never made sense in DnD. Save or die didn't even make sense. I guarantee that no matter how lucky I am, if I go into my garage and drink some paint thinner (I have some crazy industrial strength stuff), I will die.

However, I don't think this poison is balanced either. The price is probably kinda reasonable, sense it comes from a pit fiend, who probably doesn't want to be milked, and probably requires ritual magic to preserve so it's ready to be used later, but it just doesn't work on weaklings like it should. A fix would be to add half its level to the save DC, and add half your level to save against, for all effects, but the designers chose not to go this way for speed reasons I bet.