Poisons? You're kidding right?

[keterys]

Or be sneaky like Ongoing 15 poison and weakened (save ends both). Aftereffect: ongoing 15 poison (save ends, at a -5 penalty).

Then it's just the weakened that is easy to end. Of course, that would be an even higher level poison, but you can certainly do some interesting things.

 

[VannATLC]

So, the problem here is really in the save. Not the damage amount.

Ignoring, for the moment, the 'save ends' condition, this poison would reduce the Tarrasque to 0 hp in 10 minutes.

It would kill your average Epic character in 5 minutes. (Counting Healing surges, which would be conditional)

So, I would, personally, adjust the poison to give penalties to the saving throw.

The cost is irrelevant, tbh. While it would be nice if the DND economy made some sense, or if the DMG gave some nod to an economy that doesn't revolve around the characters.

Unfortunately, most of the initial complaints are valid, and I have to admit that I am dissapointed in the amount of similiar issues that keep popping up for this new edition.

 

[Pielorinho]

Yeah--the save mechanic in 4E looks really wonky to me. In other places I'm willing to give in the benefit of the doubt until I see it in play, but for poisons it seems ridiculously easy to recover from them.

I really like the idea of making them like diseases. What if they were like diseases, only they attack you during every short rest instead of every extended rest? That way they'll progress much closer to the speed of real-world poisons.

Daniel

 

[Spatula]

So, the problem here is really in the save. Not the damage amount.

Ignoring, for the moment, the 'save ends' condition, this poison would reduce the Tarrasque to 0 hp in 10 minutes.

28 minutes, since the Tarrasque has resist 10 to everything.

 

[Surgoshan]

28 minutes and 24 seconds, to be precise.

Whereas a 30th level dwarf would take almost a minute and a half.

 

[silentounce]

And when a player says "Hold on, I call BS. How are these people making money?"

I supposed I just say "Stop thinking about it. CHOO CHOOOOO!"

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html

This also gives the possible Epic Destiny: Pit Fiend Hunter. Their sting is an at-will attack so they must have a ton of that poison in their bodies. Imagine the money that could be made. Hell, I think maybe I'll just start breeding them.

 

[Particle_Man]

Does this poison go on a weapon, so that its damage is in addition to the damage one is already going to do?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Of course it is. Because no one was wondering that. You assumed people care about realism, but the first time that word is even used is by you.

But about what is it then? The price is balanced in the 4E pseudo-economy of levels and gold pieces. Unless you think it is not, and then you better have some mathematical evidence to back this up.

 

[FadedC]

The point of the poison isn't so much the damage as the weakened status. We are talking about a poison so potent it can significantly weaken a demi-god or an ancient dragon.

And if your complaining about the cost, keep in mind that level 30 magic items cost over 3 million gold. Getting a couple doses for an epic fight won't exactly break the bank.

 

[Yaezakura]

I think most people are missing the key point of what's going on with the poison here. The rules are giving you a game effect. Not a story effect.

The average person isn't going to get their hands on this poison. Hell, the richest king in all the world, despite likely having more than enough money to afford it by the gallons, has no way of actually purchasing it. If he had the means to aquire such a powerful poison, he'd likely be emperor of the world, not merely a king. It would likely take less than a tenth of a drop to kill most people outright. But that's a story element. The game doesn't need rules for that. If your character gets his hands on some and wants to use it to slay a king who's not an epic-level warrior, chances are the DM's gonna say he simply dies if you manage to find a way to actually administer the poison.

The price and effect are based on epic-level play. Sure, it's expensive. You could buy up a gigantic chunk of land for that price and start building your own kingdom. But doesn't that price seem more than reasonable for a poison that's capable of even effecting greater demons and the likes of the Terrasque? Lesser poisons would be broken down instantly, but this one is so toxic it has a chance of doing at least some damage before it's washed away. I mean, we're talking about epic foes with epic bodies. We're talking dragons that could demolish continents, demons capable of ripping the world apart at the seems, divine entities! Is it really so shocking to believe that they'd be able to shrug off even the universe's most vile toxins with relative ease? I mean, we're dealing with creatures capable of fighting toe-to-toe with a Pit Fiend, and the last thing on their mind while doing so would be watching out for the devil's tail.

It seems to be if you'd want something powerful enough to truly cripple an epic-level foe, you'd be looking at a poison operating under relic-like rules. Something that would take months or even years of questing to find or create yourself.

The Drought of Death. A mixture of poisons from every toxic plant and every venomous creature in existence, bound and strengthened by reagants that knowledge of was long since lost. Said to be powerful enough to slay even the most ancient of dragons and strongest of demon lords.

Asmodeus's Tear. The single tear said to have been shed by Asmodeus as he slew his god. A substance so vile it burned a hole in the very fabric of the Astral Sea and was lost to the cosmos. The gods themselves fear even whispered rumors that it may have been found, for they know the tear's corrosive properties could melt their very beings into nothingness.

Pit Toxin? To a greater demon, it's no more than the bite of a mildly poisoness spider to the average human. Sure it's dangerous and painful. But it's not lethal.