Polearm Warden Builds

[Shin Okada]

Hi! Now I am toying with some idea for my new PC in upcoming L11 session.
I am thinking about making a warden with a reach weapon. But not quite sure which way I should go.

Plan A: Elven Warden/Polearm Master with a Glaive

Str:21, Con:11, Dex:16, Int:10, Wis:18, Cha:9
Skills: Athletics, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Nature, Perception
Feats: Blade Opportunist, Elven Precision, Heavy Blade Opportunity, Polearm Gambit, Student of the Sword, Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade), Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)

Powers:

Plan B: Human Warden/Polearm Master with Greatspear

Str:23, Con:12, Dex:11, Int:11, Wis:17, Cha:9
Skills: Athletics, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, Nature, Perception
Feats: Action Surge, Enhanced Font of Life, Human Resilience, Polearm Gambit, Student of the Sword, Weapon Expertise (Spear), Weapon Focus (Spear), Weapon Proficiency (Greatspear)

Plan A can use any At-Will melee attacks for oppotunity attacks. But I am not sure how significant that feature is. If this character can go Epic, he can take Heavy Blade Mastery.

Plan B has slightly better melee attacks due to +2 higher strength and +1 better proficiency bonus for Greatspear. But lacking Heavy Blade Opportunity. Also, this builds may have better use for Font of Life (+2 to saves in total).

I am also toying with an idea of Dwarven Warden with Halberd.

Would you please give me some idea and suggestions? I am basically sticking to a warden with a reach weapon. But within that concept, any building suggestions are welcomed, including different combination of race, feats & paragon path.

Thanks in advance.

 

[trayburn]

My advice, don't do it.

Warden's can only Mark in Close Burst 1, and combine that with the fact RAW a charge with a reach weapon must stop 1 square away from the enemy (p287, PH, Charge/Movement Requires: "nearest square from which you can attack the enemy") you are giving up WAY to much for the reach weapon. You give up marking on a charge, which is a defender's best friend.

 

[the Jester]

Well, the newest pc imc is a warden. He started with a longspear but quickly decided that he was losing out because of the marking issue. He's already switched weapons. Make of that what you will.

 

[Shin Okada]

My advice, don't do it.

Warden's can only Mark in Close Burst 1,

Hmm. I am aware with that. Basically, he will go adjacent to foes and only use his reach mainly to use Warden's Fury, when a marked opponent shifts away from him and attack his friend. And to use Polearm Gambit.

With Student of the Sword feat, he can mark a distant target with his reach weapon when really needed to do so, though once per encounter. I hope this will ease that pain?

Regarding charge, I am not sure if that is the best friend of defenders or not, especially when warden has several "Move/Shift/Teleport & Attack" powers.

And, Form of the Oak Sentinel gives him reach 3. And at level 12 he can use Reaching Stance to have Threatening Reach one encounter per day. That combination seems sweet.

 

[Flipguarder]

I've looked at the idea of using a reach weapon with a warden pretty thoroughly at this point. And what I can tell you is that if you do, you should understand that your ability to act as a defender is going to suffer, due to both your lack of marking and lagging behind in defenses. What you will end up doing in your group is more of a controller/striker type roll.

Also the effectiveness of this type of a build increases greatly with two things

1. Agile opportunist feat
2. A bard in the party

Also with any build that involves opportunity attacks and the warden. Sudden roots is a complete must have feat imo. Just check out the rules for slowing with an opportunity attack and you will fall in love like I did.

At will for opportunity attacks is still up in the air for me. I'm unsure if I could multiclass far enough to get an at will from another class. But if I could Righteous Brand, or the barbarian one that lets you shift (?) would be really really fun options. None of the Warden at-wills lend themselves to that feat very well.

Not to say that either of your builds aren't great (I personally like #1 more) But I believe theres a LOT of hardcore studying, planning, and if you can previewing with sample encounters, to do before you can truly say you have an optimized polearm warden build.

Sidenote: I would also look heavily into abilities or feats that allow you to have threatening reach, as they would really help this build as well.

 

[Cadfan]

No, no, this is a good thing. Wardens with reach weapons are an obvious choice.

The problem with the warden without reach is that you will mark your opponents, and then they'll just shift one space away, outside the reach of your weapon, and attack your allies in spite of the mark. They suffer a -2 penalty, but that's all. After they attack you can use your mark ability to drag them back to you, but next round they'll just wander off again.

With a reach weapon they have to go more than one space or else you'll hit them in spite of their movement. And you'll hit them hard, given that you'll be attacking reflex and leaving them granting combat advantage. If they move, they provoke an opportunity attack anyways, so that's not a solution for them either. A warden with a reach weapon has fighter level stickiness against everyone adjacent to him.

Don't use your reach weapon for the reach in regular combat unless there's some special circumstance. Use it to extend the reach of your retaliatory attacks.

My personaly choice, of the two builds, would be the second. Larger attack bonus is hard to pass up.

 

[Shin Okada]

Thank you all for advices.

Sudden Roots seems to be great.

Regarding Agile Opportunist, it says,

"you can use an opportunity action to make a melee basic attack against that enemy."

Is it an opportunity attack? I am not sure if Heavy Blade Opportunity feat allows me to use at-will attack power in this case.

 

[Flipguarder]

I don't think its such an obvious choice honestly.

I get the benefit for retaliatory attacks, but imo most of what the Warden does to defend is during his turn. He immobilizes someone he stops them from shifting, he slows them, he gives them a -6 to their next attack.

I guess I just don't see retaliatory attacks as good enough reason to take -2 to reflex and AC

 

[Flipguarder]

Thank you all for advices.

Sudden Roots seems to be great.

Regarding Agile Opportunist, it says,

"you can use an opportunity action to make a melee basic attack against that enemy."

Is it an opportunity attack? I am not sure if Heavy Blade Opportunity feat allows me to use at-will attack power in this case.

I'd argue its up to interpretation but yeah probably not. Just sudden roots is a good enough reason to pick up that feat if you have a bard in your party.

Also keep in mind that I don't think heavy blade opportunity is a good feat unless you for some reason skip out on sudden roots OR you can get an at will from a different class.

 

[Eldorian]

I am also toying with an idea of Dwarven Warden with Halberd.

Would you please give me some idea and suggestions? I am basically sticking to a warden with a reach weapon. But within that concept, any building suggestions are welcomed, including different combination of race, feats & paragon path.

Thanks in advance.

Goliath Warden with Halberd. Can take Goliath Greatweapon feat for bonus damage to make up for not using a superior weapon, and can get high crit at level 11 with axes.

Then again, if you go wisdom build, reach is unnecessary at paragon levels due to wildblood speed, level 11 feat lets you shift wis mod squares when a marked foe makes an attack not including you. You shift, then use your immediate action to hit him with your one handed weapon or whatever.