Poll for my group: Magic Missile
- Thread starter Berandor
- Start date
I think MM is so much a part of D&D culture now that changing it would be more trouble than it's worth. It would be like replacing AC with hardness, or dropping alignment, or something similar.
That said, I don't see _that_ much of a problem with it. Sure, it's the one must-have spell on the 1st level list. The only real long-term benefits, however, are that the damage is guaranteed (no save), and it always hits incorporeal creatures. By the time a wiz is dealing out lots of damage with it, she'll have much better spells to choose from. 5d4+5 points isn't that much compared to a 10d6 fireball, or a 15d6 cone of cold.
That said, I don't see _that_ much of a problem with it. Sure, it's the one must-have spell on the 1st level list. The only real long-term benefits, however, are that the damage is guaranteed (no save), and it always hits incorporeal creatures. By the time a wiz is dealing out lots of damage with it, she'll have much better spells to choose from. 5d4+5 points isn't that much compared to a 10d6 fireball, or a 15d6 cone of cold.
I don't see a problem with Magic Missle. It doesn't do much damage and is susceptable to Spell Resistance.
Look at chill touch. It does 1d6 points of damage +1 point of strength damage per touch and the Fortitude only negates the strength damage and you get one touch per level with no upper limit.
Burning hands does comparable damage but it progresses faster (1d4 per level max 5d4 versus 1d4+1 per two levels max 5d4+5) and affects an area. If you want Magic Missle to affect multiple enemies, you have to split up the area.
Just some thoughts
Look at chill touch. It does 1d6 points of damage +1 point of strength damage per touch and the Fortitude only negates the strength damage and you get one touch per level with no upper limit.
Burning hands does comparable damage but it progresses faster (1d4 per level max 5d4 versus 1d4+1 per two levels max 5d4+5) and affects an area. If you want Magic Missle to affect multiple enemies, you have to split up the area.
Just some thoughts
Berandor
lunatic
As chill touch and burning hands, too.Cabral said:
And you have to make a touch attack; furthermore, the additional touches per level all take up actions in the subsequent rounds, so you can't cast another spell, ot touch anything, etc.
It affects an area directly in front of you. Furthermore, it does energy damage - easily to have resistance against it, many monsters do have it.
And it has a save.
I agree that some parts of MM are not too powerful; only MM in its whole is too powerful.
No save
hits always
medium range
splittable
more max. damage than any other spell in one round
hits incorporeal/ethereal beings
no energy damage, but force effect
1 action to cast
no material component
Name one 2nd level spell that is better for attack purposes. Because that may be the only gripe in MM. It is a pure attack spell; no other uses.
If I was a wizard 5th, and was fighting against an opponent with lightning resistance, I would choose 3d4+3 garanteed damage (~10 points of damage) to 5d6 points minus resistance, then perhaps halved by a save. The average damage with 5d6 is 17, so even a resistance of 5 would make MM almost equal, and then there's still the save.
7th: 4d4+4 (~14) to 7d6 (~24) minus resistance plus save for half. Even then I can see using magic missile.
Even when not fighting such a monster, I might go for MM. I can memorize more 1st level than 3rd level spells, and the garanteed damage could make me save the loghtning bolt for more decisive moments.
One player in our group had a wizard who cast MM against major foes, instead of using his more powerful spells... and it wasn't much of a disadvantage.
As I said, give me a second level spell that suprasses MM.
Berandor
Ravellion
serves Gnome Master
I fully agree that it is not balanced. In fact, the designing a spell section in the DMG even says so IIRC! I never took a 2nd level invocation spell with my sorcerer: why should I? MM does it all, and better. An empowered MM is better than a fireball or lightning bolt 80-90% of the time.
I honestly can't believe that any one thinks it is balanced. That it might not need altering, just accepting it as the most powerful attacks spell of 1st and 2nd level, I might be able to accept, as a sacred cow.
But "Balancedtm"?
Rav
I honestly can't believe that any one thinks it is balanced. That it might not need altering, just accepting it as the most powerful attacks spell of 1st and 2nd level, I might be able to accept, as a sacred cow.
But "Balancedtm"?
Rav
I vote we tie the troll up by the toenails and slow roast him over large fire, with an oil based glaze.
Really, Magic missile has been fundamentally unchanged since the beginning. It's a staple. To call it unbalanced is rather silly. You don't reach max damage with it until 9th level, which point you'll have a large selection of 9d6 damage area spells. To say there's not a lot of 2nd level spells which I'd rather use is also silly, there's a lot of 2nd level effects which are area, have Xd6 damage (capped at 5 typically) and also add a status impairment on a failed save.
In counterpoint, it's a great attack spell because it has almost no utility otherwise. Did you ever consider that side of the coin. For a high level mage rounding about his picks with some low level spells. It's a good selection (don't want to waste the heavy artillery on weaklings).
Also against items with regeneration, you'll typically prefer elemental attacks. At low levels I almost never memorize it or learn it (It's so common finding a scroll with it is easy, and low level castings aren't that effective compared to other picks).
Now all we gotta do is get them to errata lightning bolt back to it's former glory. (the glowing billiard ball o doom was sooo much fun!)
Really, Magic missile has been fundamentally unchanged since the beginning. It's a staple. To call it unbalanced is rather silly. You don't reach max damage with it until 9th level, which point you'll have a large selection of 9d6 damage area spells. To say there's not a lot of 2nd level spells which I'd rather use is also silly, there's a lot of 2nd level effects which are area, have Xd6 damage (capped at 5 typically) and also add a status impairment on a failed save.
In counterpoint, it's a great attack spell because it has almost no utility otherwise. Did you ever consider that side of the coin. For a high level mage rounding about his picks with some low level spells. It's a good selection (don't want to waste the heavy artillery on weaklings).
Also against items with regeneration, you'll typically prefer elemental attacks. At low levels I almost never memorize it or learn it (It's so common finding a scroll with it is easy, and low level castings aren't that effective compared to other picks).
Now all we gotta do is get them to errata lightning bolt back to it's former glory. (the glowing billiard ball o doom was sooo much fun!)
Wolf72
Explorer
Falconer said:
I don't think so! ... For some reason as player I always fail my personal will save NOT to use it in bad situations ... I didn't care if I was in the rebound (or allies for that matter) ... I let loose with all my fury!
Now I've grown up, I just FireBall at near point blank range
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