D&D 4E Poll: Turning Undead in 4E...how should it work?

[Sir Brennen]

Are there reasons why clerics who can turn undead hurt the game? None that I know of.

It's not the there's a problem with clerics who turn undead, it's the mechanic itself is wonky and a bit of a legacy item from 1E. Plus, there are those who feel, from a flavor standpoint, that turning undead doesn't make sense for certain deities' priests.

 

[lukelightning]

It should work just like spells, however they are doing them. In 3e it should be a Will save or flee/cower/croak.

I'd do away with controlling undead as a default option for evil clerics. Not every evil cleric is a necromaster. Instead of using positive energy to destroy zombies, the evil cleric could "scramble" the negative energy and destroy it. And controlling undead is much more powerful than destroying them.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Well, I am not fond of either of the poll options, as neither addresses the problem I see with 3.X turning, which are those high HD, low powered undead.

I mean, why should a high HD zombie be harder to turn than a medium HD lich or vampire even counting in the lich's turn resistance? It makes no sense at all, and turning or damaging has the same effect. I really think that turning needs to be based more on type, and less on HD as the 3.X system just does not work at all.

But how to do it elegantly is the real question.

 

[Li Shenron]

Should either work as it used to (never had a problem with the 3.0 version) or be slightly modified.

But it should ALWAYS be about TURNING and not damaging.

Otherwise call it "damage undead", just another weapon in the bunch. What a nice game would be, 100 different mechanics to do just the same thing, damage :\

 

[Lanefan]

Should be an at-will ability rather than x-per-day. A table as in 1e works just fine; failing that, an opposed roll vs. the undead based on a combination of HD and undead type (a low-HD vampire should be harder to turn than a high HD zombie) I like the idea of destroying the undead completely if your turn succeeds by a whole bunch...say, 10 more than needed...and a natural 20 should always turn but not auto-destroy.

Or...radical idea here...you're rolling not against the undead themselves, but against the power of whatever spell-effect created (or could have created) them. So zombies are relatively easy to turn regardless of their HD because it takes a fairly low-level spell (Animate Dead) to create them, while Liches are nigh-impossible to turn...

Of course, this would require solid rules for creating all the various undead types, if such don't already exist.

Lanefan

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think it should disappear completely.

I don't mind if there is a range of spells (or spell like abilities) for halting undead, causing fear to undead and destroying undead.

But for goodness sake get rid of the 'channelling energy' class feature - and along with that all the hokey and (often) broken other things that gradually accreted onto it.

I found both the mechanics and the fluff jarred terribly and always have done.

 

[Li Shenron]

Just remove the flavor about channeling, and turn it into some sort of prayer.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I voted cleric level versus HD, but I think cleric level versus CR would work better and it would need to be less clunky than how it has been emplemented in 3e.

I also do not think clerics should have to have a turn/rebuke undead ability, it should just be an option.

 

[Nikosandros]

It should work just like a Fear spell that only affects undead. They make a Will save or flee.

Agreed. Also, since monsters will be rated by level and not by hit dice, turning should be now balanced (assuming they decide to keep it similar to how it is now). In 3rd edition to make a plausible challenge with zombies you have to give them tons of HD which make them un-turnable.

 

[CleverNickName]

Back before 4E was announced, I was working on replacing the Turn Undead system with a series of spells. Turn Undead was a 1st level cleric spell, [/I]Greater Turning[/I] was a 3rd level spell, etc., and all of these spells were on the Sun domain list. That sort of thing. We didn't test it out as much as I would have liked, but it worked just fine at low- to mid-level.

The thing that I really DON'T like about the turning rules in 3.X is the plethora of feats and class features that allow you to spend turn attempts to do other things, many of which have nothing at all to do with affecting undead at all. This mechanic needs to be removed from the game altogether.