[Poly] What's happening to Polyhedron/Dungeon?

[sithramir]

I didn't have time to read the 5 freakin pages of responses. I'd just like to note that I used to buy Dungeon a long time ago when I played a lot of D&D. I hadn't played much for a long while. I now as of a year ago started playing a lot more d&d again. I am DMing a campaign and playing in one. I re-ordered Dungeon magazine and was OUTRAGED. It was a fraction of its former glorious self. Poly might be nice to a lot of people but its a waste of my money.

I am glad to see you have come to start making the changes back to make dungeon such a spectacular magazine that I saw in the past. I think you should make that poly section smaller and detachable so it doesn't take up space in my pile of dungeon magazines.

I loved having little side treks that were short adventures to add some flavor or life into my game.

I loved having a couple adventures for different levels so I could use them sometimes in my campaign or at least derive ideas from them. I also loved just reading them to see the 'cool' monsters and NPC ideas and plot changes where appropriate.

I liked the things that added flavor. For instance having the lighting and sounds explained. Thats what I like to make my players get a real feel for the game and atmosphere. But its hard to think up that for every space when its hard enough getting NPC's monsters and a plot made weekly. Things to help me in that are great.

I DISLIKE the fact that poly somehow attached itself to this magazine in some attempt to save itself from dying out. I like that you care enough to support it through dungeon because you obviously care about the people who buy it instead of just maximizing profits. But, caring or not, if it can't support itself I don't think it should take so much space from a great magazine.

Just my two cents

 

[Brisk-sg]

I DISLIKE the fact that poly somehow attached itself to this magazine in some attempt to save itself from dying out. I like that you care enough to support it through dungeon because you obviously care about the people who buy it instead of just maximizing profits. But, caring or not, if it can't support itself I don't think it should take so much space from a great magazine.

Just my two cents

It has been stated that BOTH Dungeon and Poly were in danger of dying out before the merger. One of the stated reasons was to merge the subscriber base so that they could make the bottom line for the magazine(s) and they would survive.

Some people do not believe this line of thought and think it is just an excuse. In my opinion it does not make any business sense except under the above circumstances.

 

[Erik Mona]

>>>
Paizo, however, seems to be run by RPGA lovers who really wanted to support Poly. I am sure it shocked them that so many dropped the mag when they increased Poly content and dropped Dungeon content.
>>>

It's probably worth noting that we've seen no appreciable decrease in overall subscriber numbers since the change. We _have_ received a fair number of critical emails and letters from people who don't like the monthly format (or the "dominant" Polyhedron issues), and a minority of those letters have threatened to drop subscriptions. But looking at pure numbers there was no massive drop-off.

I'm making this change because it's what I feel is best for the magazine, based in part upon message board discussions and letters to the editor. I'm explicitly _not_ basing this decision on any kind of massive sales dive.

--Erik Mona
"RPGA Lover"

 

[Mapmaker]

The modern maps are some of the best I've ever seen out there. They are going to be perfect for my Gamma World adventures when the new book is released.

You warm my heart, Gallo22! I'm glad you like them, and would love to hear how you fit them into Gamma World when the time comes.

I know at least one person who has used the first Global Positioning map (the Police Station) as an Imperial base in Star Wars, but this the first I've heard of a Gamma World adaptation. It hadn't occured to me how useful they might be in a post-apocalyptic environment...

Good luck with your adventure!

I'm making this change because it's what I feel is best for the magazine, based in part upon message board discussions and letters to the editor. I'm explicitly _not_ basing this decision on any kind of massive sales dive.

Good to know!

Thanks for the info, Erik!

 

[ES2]

talking about Star Wars

I was reading the earlier posts about the Star Wars Gamer magazine and its small issue dealing with Poly/Dungeon, and I do say that it is a bigger deal to thsoe of us who bought Star Wars Gamer and used it, and upon its closure (which I think was a big no no, considering they did that before the Revised book had a chance to take off and sell more copies for them) it was promised to all Star Wars Gamer fans that Poly would be supporting the game on a regular basis.

me, personally, I would like to see Star Wars Gamer returned to production. I think more people are playing the game now than they were before since the revised edition came out. If not, I think they should regularly support the game in their Polyhedron side of the magazine because that is what was promised us that were Star Wars Gamer subscribers, and so far they have failed to fulfill that promise (a starship an issue doesn't cut it with me, and one article larger tha one page was a good start, but we deserve more, as promised).

Most people don't see it as an issue, but we do. I still purchase Dungeon/Poly becuase I like to read just about anything that deals with gaming. I hardly use the stuff in the magazines because I hardly get a chance to play, but I still support it in its current format.

For now the magazine is a split magazine, and all of us needs to deal with that. Nothing Paizo does will please most of the people because people are different than each other.

I do know, that, if they split the magazines up, I will more than likely not purchase Dungeon now that I do know about polyhedron (which I had never even heard of until the merger with Dungeon magazine).

I also recommend Paizo coming up with a d20 magazine (make it poly, I don't care) that has adventures for other games other than D&D (because to me D&D is just so fricken boring).

As you can see, the merger was a sweet idea, and it worked. There are people like me who like Polyhedron more than Dungeon who had never heard of the magazine before the merger, and I prefer the gaming information in the more generic polyhedron than the D&D-specific Dungeon side, and if they split them up, all my money will probably go to Polyhedron...and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I still want more Star Wars content though, as promised.

 

[Sholari]

Re: Dungeon- Paizo PLEASE Listen

Erik and Paizo,

Now that you have decided on the new format for Dungeon, I'd like to throw out a few more suggestions. Parts of Dungeon exist now that truly are useless. Critical Threats and Enemies and Allies are a truly useless piece of Dungeon. They are no more than filler that could be replaced by more adventure material.

Edit: I'm merging this in with the existing Dungeon/Paizo thread. --Dinkeldog

Amen, brother.

 

[Kwyn]

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Originally posted by BelenUmeria
I am sorry to say that most GMs can make NPCs for allies and crit threats on their own. However, creating whole adventures are things many GMs do not have time for.
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Actually, based on the sales of modules vs core rules, I'd say most GMs make their own adventures too. Please don't assume that your taste and preference = the market's taste and preference. Unless you've got some market research data to back up your claims, this is just the "complaint" of a single guy on the Internet; hardly a compelling reason to make significant formatting changes to the magazine.

Well, that may be true, but isn't that sorta the reason for Dungeon's existence? If Dungeon were to adapt to the same production style as all of the other publisher's then what is the point of it existing? If they're just going to give fluff stat blocks then why even buy the magazine? You can get that sort of stuff *anywhere*.

Walk in to your flgs and look at the shelf. What do you see these days? 400 sourcebook at 10 adventures. Dungeon's *purpose*, it's very *reason for existing* is to provide DM's with D&D adventures. If it mutates into a sourcebook or the Adventure content drops, I'll never buy another issue. $7 for a magazine of adventures is money well spent. $7 spent on "source" material is much harder to justify because there are countless sources vying for my dollar.

Right now Dungeon has a captive market. WoTC has indicated that they will rarely be putting out adventures. Most publishers have followed suit and churn out endless, bland, faceless "source" material. Anyone who wants to buy ready to go adventures is really strapped for options. If Dungeon turns into <insert generic sourcebook factory here>, then where is the hook? Why would I choose them?

 

[barsoomcore]

If Dungeon were to adapt to the same production style as all of the other publisher's then what is the point of it existing? If they're just going to give fluff stat blocks then why even buy the magazine?

"They're just going to give fluff stat blocks"? Dude, nobody has EVER suggested such a thing in the five pages of this thread.

All that the post you're responding suggested was that there was no evidence to suggest that creating adventures was the only portion of GMing most GMs didn't have time for. The suggestion being that most GMs do in fact have time to create adventures, since it does not appear that adventure sales are particularly high.

Walk in to your flgs and look at the shelf. What do you see these days? 400 sourcebook at 10 adventures.

Exactly. Ergo, selling adventures may not be a viable business model. This is evidence that publishing nothing but adventures may NOT be in Dungeon's best interests.

If it mutates into a sourcebook or the Adventure content drops, I'll never buy another issue.

Right, but if they're selling twice as much as before, why would they care?

Anyone who wants to buy ready to go adventures is really strapped for options.

All of this only matters if there really is DEMAND for adventures. I mean, if anyone wants to buy adventures that feature lyrics by Steven Sondheim, they're even MORE strapped for options. That doesn't make hiring Steven Sondheim to write lyrics for your adventure a good idea.

You're looking at supply, but you're ignoring demand. Or else pretending you know what the demand is. Which unless you have some market data sitting in front of you, you don't know any more than I do. I bet, however, that the good folks at Paizo DO have some market data -- though probably not as much as they'd like. And presumably when they make their decisions about what sort of content to stick into the next issue, that market data plays a role.

 

[Belen]

Actually, there is a reason that people are not buying adventures, other than no one selling them anymore. That's because the d20 publishers want to seel adventures based around their worlds rather than create generic adventures.

I guarantee you that good, generic adventures will sell like hot cakes. A scarred lands adventure, even and FR adventure requires too much work to fit into a homebrew and then their world may not work like your world.

Too bad no one is throwing out generic adventures.

 

[barsoomcore]

I guarantee you that good, generic adventures will sell like hot cakes.

It's nice that you feel so strongly about this, but unless you're willing to put that in writing and agree to cover my costs should my generic adventure publishing business fail, it's meaningless. Data, not conviction, is what this debate is lacking. We got plenty of the latter.

Too bad no one is throwing out generic adventures.

You mean, apart from Dire Kobold ?

By the way, if you ARE willing to cover my losses, email me. I'm so ready to quit my job.