Polymorph + Animal Growth

[Derulbaskul]

I would like to ask the help of the boards with this question.

Polymorph changes both your type and subtype: a dwarf polymorphed into an animal assumes the animal type. Animal Growth works on animals.

What if a dwarf was polymorphed into a dire ape: would an Animal Growth spell work? If not, why not?

Cheers
D

 

[Brekki]

Yes it would work, just like animal growth works on wildshaped druids.

 

[jgsugden]

Yes it would work, just like animal growth works on wildshaped druids.

It would work unless the dwarf got pissy about being turned into a dangnabin ape and made his saving throw versus the animal growth spell.

The real question is: If that aped and grown dwarf then ends the polymorph effect, but not the growth effect, is he still one size larger?

 

[Corwin]

Polymorph changes both your type and subtype: a dwarf polymorphed into an animal assumes the animal type. Animal Growth works on animals.

Sure does.

What if a dwarf was polymorphed into a dire ape: would an Animal Growth spell work?

Nope.

If not, why not?

Multiple spells that increase size do not stack. Since the normally Medium-size dwarf was made into a Large animal, animal growth cannot further increase his size.

Now, if he were to be transformed into a Medium-sized animal instead, for whatever reason, then you could indeed cast animal growth on him. Though usually it is better just to make him the Large animal in the first place with the one casting of polymorph, right?

 

[youspoonybard]

The real question is: If that aped and grown dwarf then ends the polymorph effect, but not the growth effect, is he still one size larger?

I would assume so, right? It's an extention of the Willing/Unwilling rule...

 

[melkoriii]

Sure does.
Multiple spells that increase size do not stack. Since the normally Medium-size dwarf was made into a Large animal, animal growth cannot further increase his size.

Now, if he were to be transformed into a Medium-sized animal instead, for whatever reason, then you could indeed cast animal growth on him. Though usually it is better just to make him the Large animal in the first place with the one casting of polymorph, right?

Polymorph is not a spell that increases size as a direct function of the spell.

The size increase is a indirect result of the spell so they do stack.

Two spells that directly change size do not stack (Enlarge Person and Divine Might) since both spacificly state that your size increases.

 

[Nail]

Multiple spells that increase size do not stack. Since the normally Medium-size dwarf was made into a Large animal, animal growth cannot further increase his size.

Whoa.

Has someone misunderstood the rules, or what?

 

[Corwin]

Whoa.

Has someone misunderstood the rules, or what?

Get off your high horse and show me wrong, then. Sheesh. Just making a rude statement does what exactly? Other than piss people off.

If anything, it makes you look foolish and rude since you are wrong as well.

I don't see anywhere in the rules where it states some size increasing spells trump the rules.

From the SRD3.5 for animal growth:
"Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack."

Polymorph is indeed a magical effect that increases size. How is it not?

Sorry for getting my ire up, but your comment was uncalled for.

 

[Nail]

Sorry for getting my ire up, but your comment was uncalled for.

True enough. Sorry. Please let your ire sit back down again.

Animal Growth
....A number of animals grow to twice their normal size and eight times their normal weight...

And then, from Alter Self, the reference spell for Polymorph:

Alter Self
...You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities.....

The point being: Polymorph does not increase your natural size. It gives you an entirely different form. You'll note that you are unable, using polymorph, to become an especially large or small version of your chosen form.

 

[DM2]

Well said Nail. I was very dubious on whether animal growth + polymorph could increase your size 2 categories from its non-polymorphed form, but this does seem a clear loophole...

DM2