Polymorph Question(s)

[Marimmar]

Hit points don't change.

True and not true. The base Hit Points shurely don't change but since he was polymorphed, his physical attributes Str, Dex and Con change and so do his Hit Points. If it wasn't meant to be that way, I wouldn't allow a Str bonus to damage either.

~Marimmar

 

[Iku Rex]

The Polymorph spell says it's like Alter Self, a spell that does not alter hp. But that spell also doesn't alter your physical ability scores like polymorph does. From the SRD at least, it does look like your hps change with the spell.

It doesn't matter that alter self doesn't change your ability scores. Alter self says that your hit points don't change and this is not contradicted anywhere in the polymorph spell, which works like alter self (unless otherwise noted).

(I'll agree that this is unclear, but not based on the letter of the rules.)

 

[FrankTrollman]

Your hit points don't change because of the spell, but theystill change right afterwards if the change in constitution is enough to change your Constitution Modifier:

If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly.

If Polymorph said "do not readjust hit points for a changed Constitution score" like it did in 3e, then your hit points wouldn't change if you become something with a very high or low Constitution.

But it doesn't, and they do.

-Frank

 

[Iku Rex]

If Polymorph said "do not readjust hit points for a changed Constitution score" like it did in 3e, then your hit points wouldn't change if you become something with a very high or low Constitution.

The spell (through alter self) says "your hit points remain the same". Based on my interpretation this means that your [total] hit points remain the same. It's not strictly speaking necessary to add a bunch of sub-categories where your hit points don't change.

 

[jgsugden]

A wizard that marches into melee combat as an Annis deserves what he gets. The form doesn't give nearly enough AC or hp to survive as a front-line fighter. And the wizard's attack roll will still suck. Two claws and a bite for 1d6 plus strength? Not enough.

A 7th level wizard can make a fine melee type character if the design is smart. A typical wizard might want to use polymorph for transportation, healing or as a last resort, but a wizard designed for melee combat can still take great advantage out of the form.

I played a 3.0 dwarven battle-wizard that held his own with the PC barbarian in melee combat. Things have changed a bit since 3.0, but not so much that the design would not work. Polymorph is a key component of that build, providing multiple attacks, great natural armor, reach, special attacks, etc ... Around 7th level, he used the annis form in combat. He did deserve what he got. What he got was to kick butt. By itself, an Annis form doesn't give enough to go in the front lines. But combined with shield, blur, blink, improved invisibility, mage armor or a host of other spells, it is just fine. Most 7th level fighters with +2 two handed weapons deal an average of about 25 damage versus an AC 21 foe in a round. A spelled up wizard in Annis form will deliver an average of about 43 damage in a round. Even more if there is a druid in the party. plus, the Annis wizard can have an AC in the high 20s while the foes have miss chances against him.

It may not be your cup of tea, but don't assume that a melee wizard won't work. My own experience shows that it does work ... and it works very well.

 

[Nail]

It may not be your cup of tea, but don't assume that a melee wizard won't work. My own experience shows that it does work ... and it works very well.

Good to know, thanks!

...but how much prep. time did your PC need? I tend to not give my PCs much prep. time.

 

[Iku Rex]

...but how much prep. time did your PC need? I tend to not give my PCs much prep. time.

Not much. In 3.0 the combination of the permanent polymorph other and long duration (sometimes through extend or persistent spell) buff spells made the melee wizard (or sorcerer) a menace even when surprised. Thanks to haste, multiple buffs were easily cast at the start of combat. And if the PCs are the aggressors, spells with a duration of 1 minute/level can easily last through most of a "dungeon".