poor Gunslinger, needs advice.

Evilhalfling

Adventurer
BANG!
BANG!

....... loading .......

Its a standard action to reload each of my pistols.
I can speed it up if I want to pay an extra 10gp per shot. but its PFS, so the party is not going to give me a "bullet allowance" in extra cash, im just going to piss away my money.

Is it better to spend 2 rounds reloading, so you can come back in at the end of the fight with multiple attacks? reload 1 pistol at a time or just bite the bullet (paper) and spend the cash for more actions.

The rapid reload feat will be delayed until after I get precise shot. Magic guns and ammo seem unlikely. But if anyone knows a PFS adventure where they can be found please pass that along!

I know its kind of an underpowered class, anyone got any tips?
but I get to make my hands into gun shapes and yell BANG! really loud anytime I think I hit something. yes I'm that guy ;)
 

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frankthedm

First Post
I can speed it up if I want to pay an extra 10gp per shot. but its PFS, so the party is not going to give me a "bullet allowance" in extra cash
You think that's bad? Just wait till they want you pay out of pocket the treasure difference for the value of the guns you DO find. :(

And just imagine finding a +1 revolver in an adventure, and then watching it get sold for gold to divvy the treasure up properly! :devil:

EDIT: I have no clue how loot actually works in PFS play so this amusing scenario may not happen.
 
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N'raac

First Post
In one respect, it's worse than you indicate. You need a hand free to reload. Where does the second gun go while you are reloading?

I see a lot of low level gunfighter actions being in the area of "Fire; attack in melee; reload between combats".

Paper cartridges will speed up the process, but even making your own will cost 6 gp per shot (making your own bullets is much cheaper - 10 to the gold - why are you paying retail?). And there's that increased misfire chance.

You'd think some enterprising Wizard would develop a magical enhancement property that would speed up reloading crossbows and guns...
 

Kaisoku

First Post
Seriously.. take a level in a major casting class, and grab this first level spell:

Abundant Ammunition
School conjuration (summoning); Level bard 1, cleric 1, ranger 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (a single piece of ammunition)
Target one container touched
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
When cast on a container such as a quiver or a pouch that contains nonmagical ammunition or shuriken (including masterwork ammunition or shuriken), at the start of each round this spell replaces any ammunition taken from the container the round before. The ammunition taken from the container the round before vanishes. If, after casting this spell, you cast a spell that enhances projectiles, such as align weapon or greater magic weapon, on the same container, all projectiles this spell conjures are affected by that spell.
1 minute per level means it'll last most fights. Spring for the more costly paper charges (have a couple just in case), and then never actually "use them up" as long as you can cast this spell first.

Each combat should start with the following round: cast spell on ammo container, move action to load weapon. From here out, you can attack at least once a round.
This should work for the first few levels at least. Extremely helpful with the cost of ammunition for firearms.
Also good if you need silver bullets, or adamantine bullets, and you want to shoot them all willy-nilly without losing cash like crazy.

I'd suggest grabbing a bard level, so you can cast while in light armor. Bards can cast without penalty while using a shield too, and there's no penalty to using firearms with a buckler on.

If you can get Rapid Reload along with the paper charges, you'll be able to reload as a free action (I think? that might be still up for debate), making a double pistol and eventually a pepperbox a valid weapon for iterative attacks.*Edit* In retrospect, these won't even be necessary. If you reload as a free action, you can reload the same barrel over and over.

Dual wielding will be tough. You do need a free hand to reload the weapon, even if you can do this with free actions. Weapon cords allow retrieving one weapon as a swift action, but you can't drop both.
Eventually, if you can get your hands on a glove of storing, you might be able to pull it off with a weapon cord combination: drop one, reload and fire, snap fingers to store, swift to retrieve and reload and fire? I guess it depends on how you have to run your iteratives... a single offhand shot from TWF would work, but if you have to intermix your iteratives on primary and offhand, then ITWF and GTWF might not be possible).

*Note* In normal games, you can rely on a teammate to pick up this spell and have them cast it on you to keep you effective (at low cost), but then you could also rely on treasure splits, and if we want to go into it, rely on being able to craft things (does PFS at least allow you to craft your on bullets?).
In PFS, you kind of have to be self reliant on something so important to your class ability. Picking up a single level of Bard could solve a lot of problems.
If you don't like the idea of a "Bard" level... go with the Archaeologist archetype: no performances, you have a Luck ability instead (activates on swift action at 1st level, and starts off with your max rounds, it doesn't scale.. pick up Lingering Performance and triple your rounds of use). He's basically a rogue that has some bard magic talent (gaining your abundant ammunition spell).
It opens up access to Arcane Strike too, to gain magic and bonus damage on your shots (on rounds you aren't using your swift action for other things, like the two lingering rounds of luck if you grabbed that feat).
 
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N'raac

First Post
1 minute per level means it'll last most fights. Spring for the more costly paper charges (have a couple just in case), and then never actually "use them up" as long as you can cast this spell first.

Each combat should start with the following round: cast spell on ammo container, move action to load weapon. From here out, you can attack at least once a round.

Start of next round, the bullet reappears in the container and vanishes from your gun. You need to load, then fire each round.

Now if a very kind DM interpreted your gun to be a "container of ammunition"... :-S Good luck with that :hmm:
 

Kaisoku

First Post
Start of next round, the bullet reappears in the container and vanishes from your gun. You need to load, then fire each round.

Now if a very kind DM interpreted your gun to be a "container of ammunition"... :-S Good luck with that :hmm:

I don't see where you are contradicting what I'm saying. The intent was always to load and then fire in the same round.

*Edit* Ah, I see.. where I was talking about how to start combat. Yeah, you will have to load and shoot in the same round, so cast the spell and get into a favorable position I guess.

The main point of the spell is that it doesn't use up the better ammunition (ultimately needs only one each), which means he won't be running out of cash in a PFS game.
 

Evilhalfling

Adventurer
"god bless, and pass the ammunition" ?

I do have a 16 wisdom. I'll give it some thought.
as for hands:
sheathing is a move action, drawing 2 weapons is free (with BAB +1)

So I have to keep track and make sure I holster one gun after firing the first shot, but before reloading starts.

Another player pointed out that anyone with a CLW on a spell list is expected to be carrying the a wand. A level 1 wand is 12 gp per charge, In that light I should just relax a little on the costs.

Ill carry a couple of paper charges, and try to use them only on tense fights. If we are just mopping up, ill spend the time to reload.
 

Steel_Wind

Legend
Rapid reload and alchemical cartridges. Yes, even if it is PFS. Money is not terribly hard to come by in PFS and a 150-200 GP ammo tax per adventure is bearable.

I do think you would have been better off going with a musket using the Musket Master archetype instead of a John Woo 2-fisted approach. Whatever the case, you need to have the option of using alchemical carts no matter how progressed your feats and abilities are to be able to ultimately reload as a free - which is vital to your character's longterm viability. You may not use them with every shot -- but you need them to be available to you whenever you need them.

Suck it up; all PFS players who play gunslingers pay the cost of alchemical carts and you are no different. There it is.
Magic guns and ammo seem unlikely
Basic +1 guns are always available to purchase at any level if you have the cash. And by third level, you should have the gold even with the cost of alchemical carts. "+1 weapons (2,000 gp + 300 for the masterwork weapon cost + item cost)" per page 19 of the Guide to Organized Play. That's the standard rule for all PFS characters -- it applies to any weapon -- guns included. Beyond that, you can still buy versions with greater and more complex enchantments provided you have enough Fame within your faction to make it an option open to you and the sufficient cash to actually buy it.

If you have the masterwork gun already, you don't have to buy it again. You just upgrade it by having it enchanted.

Pathfinder Society Venture-Captain (Ontario)
 
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N'raac

First Post
Basic +1 guns are always available to purchase at any level if you have the cash. And by third level, you should have the gold even with the cost of alchemical carts. "+1 weapons (2,000 gp + 300 for the masterwork weapon cost + item cost)" per page 19 of the Guide to Organized Play. That's the standard rule for all PFS characters -- it applies to any weapon -- guns included. Beyond that, you can still buy versions with greater and more complex enchantments provided you have enough Fame within your faction to make it an option open to you and the sufficient cash to actually buy it.

If you have the masterwork gun already, you don't have to buy it again. You just upgrade it by having it enchanted.

To add, since your starting gun was upgraded to Masterwork through the Gunsmith feat, it would be reasonable to expect you have a Masterwork gun.
 

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