Possible "rewards" for not having a talent for magic?

[DreamChaser]

Think in the reverse. Unless a spell casting class is taken at 1st level, they can never develop magic - except (always an except) if they spend a feat for "magic potential", a feat that can only be taken at 1st level. Unless they think magic fits their plan or as a beginning class, this should keep magic very rare. But even peasants have a feat. That poor farmer's son has the potential to become the worlds greatest sorcerer, but not one person else in his village has that potential, and that boy may never find he has it.
Now, you said only 1 in 10 has the potential - but how many who have the potential actually manifest it? Consider a village of 200 people - 20 have the potential, but how many actually do cast?

This is exactly how I would do it. The reward for non-potentials is that they don't have to spend the feat.

Your 1/10th idea has some repercussions, though. What about Use Magical Device? Can a rogue still make a wand work even if he is incapable of using magic? Does ability to use magic translate into ability to use all types of magic (or is there only one type of magic in your game)?

DC

 

[Nifft]

Only problem with this is since humans gets two feats, it might make them that much more powerful against other races. But your milege may vary.

I dunno. There ought to be *some* reason why Humans rule the world... if they do indeed rule the world. If your game isn't Human-o-centric, than it is overpowered.

-- N

 

[retan]

Some clarifications

Thank you for your responses so far!

Some Clarifications:
1: Unlike the baseline D&D world, humans do not dominate this setting, in part because of their lack of talent for magic. They are still fairly numerous but that is only because humans reproduce much more rapidly than elves, giants, dragons or other magical races.
2: As for how many of those with the talent that manifest it: I think that all of them manifest it in some minor manner (Perhaps the "magic talent" feat suggested earlier gives you the option to cast one predefined cantrip once per day). However, much fewer than that actually get the training to join a spellcasting class.
3: The idea to formalize it in this manner rather than to just say that people with spellcasting classes have magic talent and those of other classes do not came to me because there are so many prestige classes out there that grant supernatural or spell-like abilities to non-caster types.

-- Retan

 

[Centaur]

Give everyone in the game an extra feat at first level. Then introduce a feat (talent) that can only be taken at first level that allows the person to learn magic.

In this way, the people who don't take the use magic feat will have it to spend on whatever they want. For the person who actualy takes the feat to use magic, if he feals ripped off, just tell him that magic is harder to learn in this world and requires extra effort and personal sacrifice.

as compensation to the person who takes the feat, you could allow them to use any spell trigger magic items, not just the ones for his class. You could also make it so that Rogues can't try and use them with there special ability unless they take the feat...

 

[Nifft]

The Easy Answer (tm): disallow PrCs that grant spells and/or spell-like abilities. Make Rangers & Paladins special "elite" forces. Require that PCs who want to take a spellcasting class do so at 1st level.

This leaves Barbarians, Rogues and Fighters for the non-magic users. Consider replacing Monks with Martial Artists -- there are a variety of them out there, from the Midnight Defender to the "Beyond Monks" version, to hong's version. (Monks don't get spells, but you specifically are disallowing "spell-like abilities" and Monks got those in spades.)



The Medium Answer: Allow only specific classes: Wizards, Druids, Clerics, Fighters, Barbarians and Rogues (or whatever you decide are your "real spellcaster" and your "non-magic" classes). Don't allow PrCs that have their own spell progression -- but do allow those which have "+1 Caster Level", since you must already have been a spellcaster to get there.



The Hard Answer: Use an alternate magic system like Psionics, Midnight's Channeler and Spell Point system, or even the Star Wars Feat/Skill Force system. This would be a lot of work.

-- N

 

[Norfleet]

I don't think you really need any kind of reward or penalty for it: If the character takes up a magic-using class, he must have had some ability to use magic. If he does not, then he might not have been one of them. Will he ever know? Will he ever care? Probably not.

Any reward system is basically something that will reward any character build which doesn't involve magical classes, and, by extension, punish anyone who does. Unless magic is somewhat beefier than usual, this will skew things in favor of non-magic class builds, which are not, by any means, disadvantaged compared to magic classes

Also, you say only about 10% are capable of learning magic: This is probably a higher percentage than is the case in actual D&D, since with your typical peasantry generated by 3d6 random, very few random people will have attributes that are conducive to being any sort of caster without being more conducive to being something ELSE.

 

[Scion]

going with some of the above i dont think any inherant bonus or penalty is needed per se. But if you would like to have one perhaps this something like this:

Non - spell caster: As long as you have no levels in a spellcasting class you get +1 to all of your saves vs spells.

Spell caster: If you have a spellcaster level you lose the +1 and gain a -1 instead.

For any character every 5 ranks in spellcraft grants a +1 to saves vs spells.

Or something similar to that, perhaps a special 'spellcasting skill' and for each 5 ranks get the +1. This way you start of with the penalty, but if you are willing to give up some resources you could eventually gain a bonus, but it would take at least 15 ranks to do that. (could be gained crossclassed by non-casters for an extra bonus as well)

 

[AeroDm]

I guess I am not so certain that any bonus is needed. PCs are supposed to be among the top 1%, so including them in the top 10% is nothing. Moreover, those who _don't_ want to be casters are given a bonus while those that want to be casters remain normal.

If you do want to do something with a bonus, I'd make it very small and try to equalize it. Perhaps grant 4 ranks Spellcraft to anyone who wants to be able to cast and 4 ranks in any class skill to others. This gives everyone a bonus, but non-casters are given flexibility that casters are not. Slight bonus.

 

[Creamsteak]

I agree with those that think that adding a slight resistance to magic makes the most sense. +1 to saves against spells or spell like abilities is one example. Spell resistance of 10 or 1+character level (so an equal level caster would always have a 5% chance to fail) seem to provide a relatively small benefit that works. SR of 5+character level means that an equal level caster with spell penetration would still have a 5% chance to fail, just for another example.

 

[retan]

My current thoughts on the issue

My best idea so far is this: Make "talent for magic" into a feat but let it have an additional effect. It might for instance enable you to detect the presence of magic sort of like a weak version of the detect magic spell. You may be able to determine whether an item is magical or whether there is an unnatural presence in the area (such as a ghost lurking on the ethereal plane). You might also be able to buy additional feats to build on this. One example might be a feat that grants the ability to see a short distance into the ethereal plane.

I have yet to decide what to do with elves and gnomes. They are supposed to have the magic talent automatically. I see the following options:
1: Give them "magic talent" as a bonus feat. This will make these two races slightly more powerful than normal.
2: Require them to take the "magic talent" feat as their first-level feat. This will reduce the flexibility of elf and gnome characters.
3: Allow these two races to take levels in any class even without the feat. They must still take the feat to get the additional effect.
4: Give them the "magic talent" feat as a bonus feat and give the other races a bonus feat as well. Endurance might work for dwarves and half-orcs.

-- Retan