[possibly controversial]What is wrong with Vampire the Masquerade 5E?

Reynard

Legend
I posted a link to the current V:tM bundle on a private gaming Facebook group I maintain and one of my friends commented that supporting the game was supporting some Very Bad People. For evidence my friend link ed a very long, very screed like blog post that I frankly had a difficult time making it through or discerning actual truth from.

So, before I give money to people that are bad or harmful, can someone point me to less reactionary or at least more readable games journalism explaining the problem.

NOTE: I am not looking to create a heated discussion or anything. I just want to know whether it is (ethically) okay to buy this game bundle. Thanks for keeping to the facts.
 

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Dire Bare

Legend
I posted a link to the current V:tM bundle on a private gaming Facebook group I maintain and one of my friends commented that supporting the game was supporting some Very Bad People. For evidence my friend link ed a very long, very screed like blog post that I frankly had a difficult time making it through or discerning actual truth from.

So, before I give money to people that are bad or harmful, can someone point me to less reactionary or at least more readable games journalism explaining the problem.

NOTE: I am not looking to create a heated discussion or anything. I just want to know whether it is (ethically) okay to buy this game bundle. Thanks for keeping to the facts.
While I don't remember the details, there were some controversies with the original printings of the core books . . . years ago, under another publisher.

Renegade Games has taken over development of the game, and reprinted the core books removing the problematic content.

It should be fine . . . . but perhaps someone with better memory or google-fu can explain better than I.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Yeah, I think your friend didn't realize that the game has changed hands. The prior edgelord stuff was indeed pretty bad (no, worse than you're picturing and it's gotten worse with age). Renegade has been pretty careful about not giving themselves any more self-inflicted wounds since then.
 

From White Wolf's Wikipedia entry:

In November 2018, as a result of backlash generated by material pertaining to "murder of gay Chechens" published in a Vampire: The Masquerade Fifth Edition source book as well as the inclusion of optional neo-Nazi aesthetic in the Brujah vampire clan,[9] it was announced that White Wolf would no longer function as an entity separate from its parent company, and would cease developing and publishing products internally.
 
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Dire Bare

Legend
Is VtM 5E problematic tho?
The discussion has jogged my memory, although I may have details slightly off.

No, VtM is not a problematic game . . . not anymore. Everything discussed upthread is the same game edition, 5E.

Paradox bought White Wolf, White Wolf developed VtM 5E . . . with the problematic elements. Outcry ensued, Paradox dissolved White Wolf and put the game on hold.

Modiphius gets the license (Paradox still owns the IP) and reprints the VtM 5E books, but minus the problematic content. Now, Renegade has the license, and the problematic content is still gone.

So, you can purchase the game without worrying about supporting Very Bad People.
 

Reynard

Legend
The discussion has jogged my memory, although I may have details slightly off.

No, VtM is not a problematic game . . . not anymore. Everything discussed upthread is the same game edition, 5E.

Paradox bought White Wolf, White Wolf developed VtM 5E . . . with the problematic elements. Outcry ensued, Paradox dissolved White Wolf and put the game on hold.

Modiphius gets the license (Paradox still owns the IP) and reprints the VtM 5E books, but minus the problematic content. Now, Renegade has the license, and the problematic content is still gone.

So, you can purchase the game without worrying about supporting Very Bad People.
Thanks.
 

MGibster

Legend
Is VtM 5E problematic tho?
Yes. Your character is a monster. He hurts people. No matter how hard he tries to avoid hurting people, even the ones he loves, he's going to hurt them. He's going to take advantage of others and use them for his own ends. As part of character creation, players decide what their coterie is. A coterie is just a group of vampires, the PCs in this case, who hang around each other because they have some common cause. There are different types of coteries in the main book and when I ran my game the players picked Hunting Party.

The Hunting Party coterie specializes in procuring particlar blood as demanded by their clients. Client says they want the blood of a depressed virgin girl under the age of 18 then that's what they provide. And I don't mean just a bag of blood, they'll deliver a 15 year old girl if that meets the needs of the client. The PC set their coterie up as human traffickers with all the horrible trappings you would expect.

There are also Predator Types which is how your character typically does their hunting. A Sandman is a vampire who feeds on humans while they're sleeping and an Alleycat is a vampire who physically assaults people and drains them. There are also Cleavers, vampires who feed on their mortal family and friends. Sometimes they marry and feed off their wives or adopted children. Then there are Sirens. A Siren is a vampire who feeds almost exclusively during or while feigning sex. i.e. In practical terms they're rapist.

The authors do write that you should make sure everyone at the table is cool with what's going on. Vampire is a mature game, but that doesn't give anyone an excuse to be a jerk about it. But given its subject matter, abuse and addiction, I don't see how it could be anything but problematic.
 


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