[possibly controversial]What is wrong with Vampire the Masquerade 5E?

[Reynard]

Yes. Your character is a monster. He hurts people. No matter how hard he tries to avoid hurting people, even the ones he loves, he's going to hurt them. He's going to take advantage of others and use them for his own ends. As part of character creation, players decide what their coterie is. A coterie is just a group of vampires, the PCs in this case, who hang around each other because they have some common cause. There are different types of coteries in the main book and when I ran my game the players picked Hunting Party.

The Hunting Party coterie specializes in procuring particlar blood as demanded by their clients. Client says they want the blood of a depressed virgin girl under the age of 18 then that's what they provide. And I don't mean just a bag of blood, they'll deliver a 15 year old girl if that meets the needs of the client. The PC set their coterie up as human traffickers with all the horrible trappings you would expect.

There are also Predator Types which is how your character typically does their hunting. A Sandman is a vampire who feeds on humans while they're sleeping and an Alleycat is a vampire who physically assaults people and drains them. There are also Cleavers, vampires who feed on their mortal family and friends. Sometimes they marry and feed off their wives or adopted children. Then there are Sirens. A Siren is a vampire who feeds almost exclusively during or while feigning sex. i.e. In practical terms they're rapist.

The authors do write that you should make sure everyone at the table is cool with what's going on. Vampire is a mature game, but that doesn't give anyone an excuse to be a jerk about it. But given its subject matter, abuse and addiction, I don't see how it could be anything but problematic.

I'm not really asking whether it is okay to play a monster. I am asking whether buying the game will give money to people that are Bad and hold Bad Views.

 

[Dire Bare]

Yes. Your character is a monster. He hurts people. No matter how hard he tries to avoid hurting people, even the ones he loves, he's going to hurt them. He's going to take advantage of others and use them for his own ends. As part of character creation, players decide what their coterie is. A coterie is just a group of vampires, the PCs in this case, who hang around each other because they have some common cause. There are different types of coteries in the main book and when I ran my game the players picked Hunting Party.

The Hunting Party coterie specializes in procuring particlar blood as demanded by their clients. Client says they want the blood of a depressed virgin girl under the age of 18 then that's what they provide. And I don't mean just a bag of blood, they'll deliver a 15 year old girl if that meets the needs of the client. The PC set their coterie up as human traffickers with all the horrible trappings you would expect.

There are also Predator Types which is how your character typically does their hunting. A Sandman is a vampire who feeds on humans while they're sleeping and an Alleycat is a vampire who physically assaults people and drains them. There are also Cleavers, vampires who feed on their mortal family and friends. Sometimes they marry and feed off their wives or adopted children. Then there are Sirens. A Siren is a vampire who feeds almost exclusively during or while feigning sex. i.e. In practical terms they're rapist.

The authors do write that you should make sure everyone at the table is cool with what's going on. Vampire is a mature game, but that doesn't give anyone an excuse to be a jerk about it. But given its subject matter, abuse and addiction, I don't see how it could be anything but problematic.

I don't think the basic premise behind Vampire is problematic . . . playing a monster.

But . . . the game is easy to play in a problematic way, a way for immature players (of any age) to endulge in dark, messed up power fantasies. And I feel it's harder to play as intended, exploring the line between human and monster in all of us.

I've never enjoyed a Vampire (or Werewolf) game with my friend groups over the years for those reasons. But Mage . . . I love that game! Call me when Mage V5 is released!!!

 

[GuardianLurker]

I'm not really asking whether it is okay to play a monster. I am asking whether buying the game will give money to people that are Bad and hold Bad Views.

Aahh.

The old problem of divorcing Art from Artist.

I'd suggest that VtM 5e is probably not going to be a good fit for you, as it sounds like the Authors intended it as a deep role-playing exploration of the horrific parts of human nature. which is generally considered a harder task than that. For good power-gamey goodness with vampires, I'd suggest VtM 20th, or the original 90's era books.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Aahh.

The old problem of divorcing Art from Artist.

I'd suggest that VtM 5e is probably not going to be a good fit for you, as it sounds like the Authors intended it as a deep role-playing exploration of the horrific parts of human nature. which is generally considered a harder task than that. For good power-gamey goodness with vampires, I'd suggest VtM 20th, or the original 90's era books.

He was specifically not wanting to support folks who may be Nazi fans. That's completely separate about whether he wants to play a dark game.

 

[Reynard]

Aahh.

The old problem of divorcing Art from Artist.

I'd suggest that VtM 5e is probably not going to be a good fit for you, as it sounds like the Authors intended it as a deep role-playing exploration of the horrific parts of human nature. which is generally considered a harder task than that. For good power-gamey goodness with vampires, I'd suggest VtM 20th, or the original 90's era books.

I feel like I wasn't clear based on your response.

The original release of the 5th Edition of Vampire the Masquerade was marred by the involvement of really problematic people (NOT Ken Hite, btw) and those people included some really problematic content. I have read that those people are no longer involved and that content has been removed.

My question simply: if I buy it now will some of that money go to those people.

I have no idea how you got to a conclusion that my question was whether it would be power gamey enough. I mean, literally, how?

 

[Reynard]

He was specifically not wanting to support folks who may be Nazi fans. That's completely separate about whether he wants to play a dark game.

Thank you. Yes.

 

[Dire Bare]

Aahh.

The old problem of divorcing Art from Artist.

I'd suggest that VtM 5e is probably not going to be a good fit for you, as it sounds like the Authors intended it as a deep role-playing exploration of the horrific parts of human nature. which is generally considered a harder task than that. For good power-gamey goodness with vampires, I'd suggest VtM 20th, or the original 90's era books.

Nah.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

My question simply: if I buy it now will some of that money go to those people.

No. It was work for hire. They got paid long ago and get no ongoing income from the books, unless there's something really shocking happening, which would be surprising, since no one other than Ken Hite involved was a brand name who could conceivably ask for a better deal.

 

[Reynard]

No. It was work for hire. They got paid long ago and get no ongoing income from the books, unless there's something really shocking happening, which would be surprising, since no one other than Ken Hite involved was a brand name who could conceivably ask for a better deal.

Well, I'm next to nobody and I have a few projects I get royalties on.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well, I'm next to nobody and I have a few projects I get royalties on.

Fair. In that case, I suspect there's no one here who knows for sure what the terms of Paradox's deal were. But Ken Hite is a mensch and if you DMed him, he might know.