Possibly returning to painting Minis

[Dannyalcatraz]

Inspired by this thread (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=181239&page=2) as well as certain websites (http://coolminiornot.com/) and the constant cajoling of my buddies, I'm starting to think seriously about painting my collection...or at least portions of it. I need some help.

Among other things, I'm an artist and a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to my artistic endeavors. One of the reasons why I gave up painting the minis was the dissatisfaction I had at my quality of work vs the time I had put into it. Thus, I'm looking for tips to minimize my frustrations as I consider delving back into this.

1) My collection of minis dates back to the late 1970's, and 99.9% of them are unpainted. Most of the painted ones are larger minis, like dragons and a Grenadier Pit Fiend. The jobs are, at best, garish. Hey- I was a kid!

What do I need to do to improve the paint jobs on them? Can I simply overpaint on minis (at least, those with few fine details), or is stripping them first neccessary? If so, what is best? (No Conan quotes!) I tried stripping the Pit Fiend with only marginal results.

2) To Prime or not to Prime? Does it really help? If so, what is a good one to use?

3) Paints: When I started this all those decades ago, I used the same model paints I was using for my plastic models of cars & planes, with mixed results. Is the same stuff in use today?

What are the better brands? What are the essential colors?

4) Neccessary equipment: Back in the day, I was frustrated at my inability to paint all those small details, so I mainly stuck to bigger figs. It wasn't until a few years ago that I saw a magnifiying glass setup with a base & alligator clips. DUH!

So, besides something like that, what kind and size of brushes etc. do I need?

5) I know I need to follow the KISS method. Any suggestions on where to begin?

If it matters, the Great Grey Army numbers in the thousands, and dates back to the 1970s. It includes brands like Grenadier, Heritage, Ral Partha, Rackham, Reaper, Dreampod 9, Heartbreaker, WotC Chainmail minis etc., and cover Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Supers, Mecha, and fusion types.

 

[mps42]

Retun to splendour!

I am by no means a expert mini painter but I will give some info.

1) My collection of minis dates back to the late 1970's, and 99.9% of them are unpainted. Most of the painted ones are larger minis, like dragons and a Grenadier Pit Fiend. The jobs are, at best, garish. Hey- I was a kid!
What do I need to do to improve the paint jobs on them? Can I simply overpaint on minis (at least, those with few fine details), or is stripping them first neccessary? If so, what is best? (No Conan quotes!) I tried stripping the Pit Fiend with only marginal results.

You will want to strip the minis that are already painted to get a good, clean starting surface. A good, inexpensive stripper is Simple Green. Just fill a small cup or something (depending on the size of the mini and how many you're stripping) with undiluted Simple Green, cover and let sit at least overnight, scrub off the old paint with a stiff brush (not wire), rinse and wipe dry with a low-lint cloth (old sheets work well).


2) To Prime or not to Prime? Does it really help? If so, what is a good one to use?

Prime! Definitely prime! Pretty much any spray primer will work.


3) Paints: When I started this all those decades ago, I used the same model paints I was using for my plastic models of cars & planes, with mixed results. Is the same stuff in use today? What are the better brands? What are the essential colors?

No, you do not want to use model paints. Use craft paint or actual Mini paint. The better brands are somewhat a matter of opinion but Citadel or Vallejo are generally considered the best.
As for colors, it depends on what you'll be painting first and whether you'll be painting "realistic" or "fantastic". I generally go for realistic and so use lots of browns and such.


4) Neccessary equipment: Back in the day, I was frustrated at my inability to paint all those small details, so I mainly stuck to bigger figs. It wasn't until a few years ago that I saw a magnifiying glass setup with a base & alligator clips. DUH!
So, besides something like that, what kind and size of brushes etc. do I need?

Get good quality brushes. Sable or Golden Taklon are decent. I use #2 flat for dry-brushing and painting large areas, 10/0 flat for finer dry brushing and medium to small areas and a 18/0 spotter for the REALLY fine stuff like eyes. However I use a Micron .005 mm pen for the pupils. Works Great!


5) I know I need to follow the KISS method. Any suggestions on where to begin?

I would say figure out what you have the most of and start with those because you'll be using mostly the same colors and, therefore, a smaller initial outlay in paints. Also, realize that your first dozen or so minis will likely look like crap. It's okay! Keep working and learn from it and, when you get better, you can strip them and repaint them with your new mad painting skills!


If it matters, the Great Grey Army numbers in the thousands, and dates back to the 1970s. It includes brands like Grenadier, Heritage, Ral Partha, Rackham, Reaper, Dreampod 9, Heartbreaker, WotC Chainmail minis etc., and cover Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Supers, Mecha, and fusion types.

It doesn't really matter what KIND of mini's you have. Strip 'em, prime 'em and get painting. Oh, and post pics!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Thanks for the quick reply!

Some additional questions:

Where do you reccomend buying supplies? Hobby shops or Gaming shops?

Primer: how many coats, or alternatively, how much time does it take to lay down a good single coat?

Paint: well, most stuff like leather armor or flesh tones, I'd want to be "realistic" except for the obvious...you know- Angel wings, dragon hides... So for a fantasy palate, I know I'll need a lot of white, brown and silvertone (or can you get away with just clearcoating the metal?)...what other colors are essential? For Sci-Fi, I'll need metallics and camoflage (olive, tan, black). For supers, I'll need a good set of primaries, like red, blue, yellow and green.

BTW- do you buy a broad range of individual colors or do you mainly mix your own?

As for the posting of pix, I'm not ready to gear up to paint just yet- too many other things going on. By the time I have something ready to show, it will DEFINITELY involve thread necromancy!

 

[pogre]

Start small - try to do a few monsters you will need in an upcoming campaign session.

There is a lot of great information on the web. One thing you will notice immediately is everyone has their own style and preferences.

There are no less than four high quality paint lines for miniatures right now:
Vallejo Game Color and Model Color
Reaper Master Series
Privateer Press Paint
Citadel/Games Workshop

All four lines have very different properties and you will find very skilled painters using each line and a combination of all these and more. There are some painters even doing some impressive painting with cheap craft paints. IMO craft paints make painting harder and are not worth it, but as I said some folks make them work.

Primers - most painters use spray primers these days. I use a primer you can pick up for four bucks at NAPA Auto Parts - Dupli-Color Sandable Primer. A good friend of mine who has won numerous painting constests, including golden demons, insists on using the Tamiya Spray Primer. Others suggest going to Walmart and buying Krylon - anyway, you get the idea - lots of preferences involved here. I would stay away from Armory as it tends to give a grainy/ dusty finish and are very inconsistent.

There is much more universal agreement on sealer these days. Almost everyone uses Testors ModelMaster flat as a final coat. Painters may use a multitude of undercoat varnishes, but almost everyone finishes with this stuff these days.

Some more universal tips -
1. Thin your paints.
2. Work from the inside out - skin, then clothes, then armor, etc.

I could go on and on, but I think I will just link to my painting resource thread instead:
Painting Miniatures Guide

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Primers - most painters use spray primers these days. I use a primer you can pick up for four bucks at NAPA Auto Parts - Dupli-Color Sandable Primer. A good friend of mine who has won numerous painting constests, including golden demons, insists on using the Tamiya Spray Primer. Others suggest going to Walmart and buying Krylon - anyway, you get the idea - lots of preferences involved here. I would stay away from Armory as it tends to give a grainy/ dusty finish and are very inconsistent.
Guide[/URL]

Seconded on the Armory stuff. They tend to leave a dusty "fluffy" feel on the figures a lot of times. I never had that problem using Citadel primer before. Got 2 cans of that I'm pitching out.

 

[Doug Sundseth]

If you know how to take care of brushes, buy good brushes. Winsor & Newton Series Seven are broadly considered the gold standard.

If you buy good brushes, you don't need anything smaller than about a 3/0. Good brushes have good points, and really small brushes actually make it more difficult to paint details, because the paint will dry so fast on the brush.

Don't use good brushes for drybrushing; nothing trashes a brush faster.

 

[pogre]

If you know how to take care of brushes, buy good brushes. Winsor & Newton Series Seven are broadly considered the gold standard.

QFT.

I don't really take good care of my brushes and my W&N #7's last forever.

 

[bento]

Inspired by this thread (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=181239&page=2) as well as certain websites (http://coolminiornot.com/) and the constant cajoling of my buddies, I'm starting to think seriously about painting my collection...or at least portions of it. I need some help.

Among other things, I'm an artist and a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to my artistic endeavors. One of the reasons why I gave up painting the minis was the dissatisfaction I had at my quality of work vs the time I had put into it. Thus, I'm looking for tips to minimize my frustrations as I consider delving back into this.

Painting is one of the things I do while I'm waiting for the next game! Nothing like whipping out a cool looking mini on my players to ooh and ahh over!

Remember the True20 game I ran? Check out these minis that just came out on the Old Glory web site: Four Musketeers and Cardinal's Guards. I wish I had those a couple of months ago for the game!

1) My collection of minis dates back to the late 1970's, and 99.9% of them are unpainted. Most of the painted ones are larger minis, like dragons and a Grenadier Pit Fiend. The jobs are, at best, garish. Hey- I was a kid!

What do I need to do to improve the paint jobs on them? Can I simply overpaint on minis (at least, those with few fine details), or is stripping them first neccessary? If so, what is best? (No Conan quotes!) I tried stripping the Pit Fiend with only marginal results.

When I went to Reapercon this year and learned a bunch of new techniques, I felt like I wanted to go home and strip all the minis I've painted so far. The instructors there said not to - it helps you learn how far you've come along. If you're thinking about stripping them anyway, I'd suggest holding off and getting some practice in on those you haven't yet painted. Once you get some techniques down, then maybe consider doing it.

2) To Prime or not to Prime? Does it really help? If so, what is a good one to use?

Definately prime. I'm using Tayama(?) Super Fine Primer for metal and plastic. It's about $6 a can and has a red and blue squares on the can with a white star in each.

I took a 1 1/2 inch round wooden rod that I removed during a remodelling project and cut it into 3 inch sections. I superglue each mini I'm going to paint to the wood and then prime it. Leaving it on the wood lets me manipulate the mini while I paint it and keeps me from touching the paint until its done.

Oh and be sure to prep the mini before this point by sanding down seam lines and cutting of any dangling metal bits. Give them a good bath in soapy water, scrubbing gently to get the metal as clean as possible. Priming will coat the metal and give something for the paint to hold on to. An non-primed mini will start flaking paint.

3) Paints: When I started this all those decades ago, I used the same model paints I was using for my plastic models of cars & planes, with mixed results. Is the same stuff in use today?

What are the better brands? What are the essential colors?

I'm using Reaper's Master Series. They are $3 a bottle. But I can make this project even cheaper for you. You live about 20 minutes away from the Reaper factory. On Saturdays from 12 to 4 they have a open painting session where you can use any of their paints for free. Even better - some of the pros that work for Reaper come up there and give tips. It's the cheapest and funnest way to learn to paint.

4) Neccessary equipment: Back in the day, I was frustrated at my inability to paint all those small details, so I mainly stuck to bigger figs. It wasn't until a few years ago that I saw a magnifiying glass setup with a base & alligator clips. DUH!

So, besides something like that, what kind and size of brushes etc. do I need?

The Reaper web site recently had an article on what to pick up when starting. Here's the link.

5) I know I need to follow the KISS method. Any suggestions on where to begin?

Best advice - learn how to cheat. You want to cheat the eyes and its not hard to do once you learn how colors work together. When I'm painting something that I want to shade, I first paint the part with the primary color. I then look at it and think "where do shadows fall, and where is the light bouncing from?"

I mix four parts of my primary color with one part dark paint (brown, blue, red, gray or black, depending on primary color's base), and paint in the shadows. Then I mix four parts of my primary color with one part linen white and paint the highlights. I was told these shadows/highlights shouldn't cover more than 1/4 of the primary color. This way my cloth looks like it has texture and muscles are articulated.

If you want to go to the Reaper factory, I'm available this Saturday. You can also look over their supplies of brushes. I started with their red nylon brushes, but I find these start to curl after using them for a couple of weeks. I bit the bullet and bought the sables and so far they've been magic. But it's good to have the nylons for things like dry brushing and mixing paints. Anything that's hard on a brush I use the nylons.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Thanks for the tips, everyone!

Bento, I may just take you up on that trip to the Reaper factory!

I'll drop you an e-mail later- Richard might want to go as well, and I'm on someone else's computer so I don't have all my addresses handy. (My Mac is in an upstairs den, and that AC went out- its 90deg+ up there, and the repairman just left, so its just now starting to cool.)