post-scarcity science fiction?

[fireinthedust]

a while back I discussed the effects of tech on society (futuristic in that case). Great answers here, but just now I found http://io9.com/eliminating-scarcity...utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

that article!

I'd like to hear the answers of, imho, the most cerebral forum posters on the internet! (you folks, that is. Usually clever answers, normally... )

Thoughts? Should society always include jerks?

 

[Dungeoneer]

I'm not really sure what you're asking here. Or even what is so significant about the article.

 

[Morrus]

It's a terrible experiment. A single group of students brought up in one culture is in no way representative of generations of future people brought up in an entirely different hypothetical culture. Such a thing would be a whole way of life and thinking, if it were something that were to ever exist.

 

[WayneLigon]

The Culture novels by the late, great Iain M. Banks are a sweeping far-future description of a post-scarcity society. The worlds and ship-worlds that belong to The Culture have no concept of 'want' or 'need', existing in a total near-anarchist freedom that has very few jerks in it (at least in the economic sense).

The Nanotech Succession books by Linda Nagata show a developing post-scarcity culture with plenty of jerks.

I have not gotten around to reading Doctorow's Down And Out In The Magic Kingdom, but I've read other novels and stories where reputation replaces currency. It's an interesting concept.

 

[WayneLigon]

I'm not really sure what you're asking here. Or even what is so significant about the article.

A post-scarcity world is a world where we've solved all wants and needs, making trade and money useless.

All of history has been dominated by the idea of scarcity, that there is only so much land, food, oil, electricity, water, whatever to go around. When that barrier disappears, human society could be expected to change in ways we can barely comprehend.

Since the vast majority of problems stem ultimately from economic scarcity - too few of a resource, too much of another one, wars fought for land and natural resources and wealth, etc etc then a post-scarcity world should be free of most of the common human ills. The only ones that should develop would be those resulting from internal aberrant functioning (aka psycho/sociopaths) and that can likely be dealt with by chemical restructuring.

Generally, you start talking about alternatives to the nation-state after that.

 

[herrozerro]

Imo in a post scarcity society the limiting resource is power or influence. Time could also be a limited resources as well.

Depending on the ambition of the society can also provide jerks as well. If the society is in stagnation and is in total contentment with its status I could see less jerks. But a society still with ambitions time, power and influence are limited resources that could provide the circumstances for jerks to still flourish.

Humans themselves could be a limited resource as well. Unless you also have AI that could replace humans there is only so much a limited amount of people can accomplish as well. Unless technology has replaced labor completely as well.

 

[Dungeoneer]

A post-scarcity world is a world where we've solved all wants and needs, making trade and money useless.

All of history has been dominated by the idea of scarcity, that there is only so much land, food, oil, electricity, water, whatever to go around. When that barrier disappears, human society could be expected to change in ways we can barely comprehend.

Since the vast majority of problems stem ultimately from economic scarcity - too few of a resource, too much of another one, wars fought for land and natural resources and wealth, etc etc then a post-scarcity world should be free of most of the common human ills. The only ones that should develop would be those resulting from internal aberrant functioning (aka psycho/sociopaths) and that can likely be dealt with by chemical restructuring.

Generally, you start talking about alternatives to the nation-state after that.

I know what a post-scarcity world is. I've seen Star Trek. I read sci-fi. I'm just not sure what the question is.

At any rate, I never found Star Trek's vision of a post-scarcity future convincing. Clearly there is scarcity in Star Trek - everyone doesn't have their own planet. Everyone doesn't get their own Enterprise to fly around in.

I'm willing to believe that there might be a future where everyone has enough food to survive, a place to live and access to decent health care. But that won't be the end of scarcity and I definitely don't believe it will usher in a skant-wearing utopia.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There are lots of post-scarcity fiction settings. Trek is one, Asimov's Robot trilogy is another.

Both still have conflict because:

1) people can still be jerks, malcontents or outright insane.

2) scarcity has only been eliminated at the microeconomic scale, not the macro- while the citizens of Rodenberry's vision can have all the diamonds and such they want, and a fine instrument or meal is only a replicator recipe away, things like dilithium crystals are still rare. Physical space is still a valuable commodity. IOW, in your daily life, you may have all you need, but not neccessarily all you want.

3) Mother Nature still has a say in things.

 

[Cadence]

Eloi with mechanical caretakers instead of morlocks?

Wars fought over 1st print books, magic cards, and beanie babies from previous centuries?

 

[howandwhy99]

Post-scarcity presumes an abundance of wealth beyond anyone's ability to not simply take whatever they need whenever they want it.

This is a fantasy in truth. A kind of infinity in every way.
I wish I was smarter, stronger, younger, taller, more creative, better looking.
There is no top end, so there is always the scarcity of you personally having to make yourselves these things.
I think what post-scarcity means, in some respects anyways, is instantaneous gratification of every desire as eternal beings.