post-scarcity science fiction?

[WayneLigon]

At any rate, I never found Star Trek's vision of a post-scarcity future convincing. Clearly there is scarcity in Star Trek - everyone doesn't have their own planet. Everyone doesn't get their own Enterprise to fly around in.

1) people can still be jerks, malcontents or outright insane.

IOW, in your daily life, you may have all you need, but not neccessarily all you want.

Most post-scarcity fiction I've read also postulates a cultural change where there is no 'manufactured want'; ie, we kill all the marketers, or that people have simply learned that greed kills. Also, by curing various forms of insanity, you more than likely cure that as well.

3) Mother Nature still has a say in things.

I think by the time you have a post-scarcity economy, you're pretty much in charge of 'nature'. Huge

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Most post-scarcity fiction I've read also postulates a cultural change where there is no 'manufactured want'; ie, we kill all the marketers, or that people have simply learned that greed kills.

Not all wants are manufactured and artificial. Besides that, that fiction relies somewhat on the premise that humans are rational beings who sometimes react irrationally.

But research shows that we react emotionally first, then reign our emotions with our rational minds. IOW, you can teach people that Greed kills- I mean, even today, that's not exactly news- but that won't stop some from being greedy. Ditto the other Deadly Sins.

Also, by curing various forms of insanity, you more than likely cure that as well.

The more I've learned of psychology, the less I think that that is probable. Insanity arises from both physiological causes and non-physiological ones. To eliminate insanity, you must not only address infectious, parasitic and genetic causes, but also those that arise from stressors.

And I don't think a life without stressors is possible.

I think by the time you have a post-scarcity economy, you're pretty much in charge of 'nature'.

Even in the Trek universe, there are natural disasters at the non-cosmic scale- and upwards, of course- that affect people.

 

[SarahNewton]

Post-scarcity in science-fiction seems most often to refer to resources - that there is no limit to the ability of people to gain access to "stuff", either by replicators, perfectly-organised processing and distribution infrastructure, etc.

But there's another form of scarcity: imagination. In a universe where replicators can make stuff out of thin air / limitless energy, somebody still has to tell them what to produce.

And another: information. You might have access to the sum total of human knowledge at the flick of a mind-switch, but new information has to be gathered, processed, and distributed.

And, lastly: replicators. It might sound obvious, but those replicators have to be... um... replicated. And then distributed.

These three "post-scarcity resources" interact in unexpected ways. In a post-scarcity game, the provision, distribution, and control of imagination, information, and replication can be a really cool area for PC and scenario action, IMHO.

Perhaps it's a human nature issue: people want what they don't have. If you give them that, they'll want something else. To stop them wanting, you probably have to stop them being human. Or something...

Cheers,

Sarah

 

[biotech66]

Check out Eclipse Phase. Depending where you are in the world its post scarcity SF.

 

[herrozerro]

Post-scarcity in science-fiction seems most often to refer to resources - that there is no limit to the ability of people to gain access to "stuff", either by replicators, perfectly-organised processing and distribution infrastructure, etc.

But there's another form of scarcity: imagination. In a universe where replicators can make stuff out of thin air / limitless energy, somebody still has to tell them what to produce.

And another: information. You might have access to the sum total of human knowledge at the flick of a mind-switch, but new information has to be gathered, processed, and distributed.

And, lastly: replicators. It might sound obvious, but those replicators have to be... um... replicated. And then distributed.

These three "post-scarcity resources" interact in unexpected ways. In a post-scarcity game, the provision, distribution, and control of imagination, information, and replication can be a really cool area for PC and scenario action, IMHO.

Perhaps it's a human nature issue: people want what they don't have. If you give them that, they'll want something else. To stop them wanting, you probably have to stop them being human. Or something...

Cheers,

Sarah

Your point of the replicators is a good one. While there may exist a society that has moved past scarcity, that doesn't mean that they are willing to share it.

Nova praxis deals with this. One of the societies has moved past scarcity, but the government is a totalitarian utopia.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

At any rate, I never found Star Trek's vision of a post-scarcity future convincing. Clearly there is scarcity in Star Trek - everyone doesn't have their own planet. Everyone doesn't get their own Enterprise to fly around in.

I'm willing to believe that there might be a future where everyone has enough food to survive, a place to live and access to decent health care. But that won't be the end of scarcity and I definitely don't believe it will usher in a skant-wearing utopia.

Very much agree. In reading about a post-scarcity setting I have to kick in my suspension of disbelief to the same degree I do in books including magic. Still it can make for some interesting stories.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

The more I've learned of psychology, the less I think that that is probable. Insanity arises from both physiological causes and non-physiological ones. To eliminate insanity, you must not only address infectious, parasitic and genetic causes, but also those that arise from stressors.

And I don't think a life without stressors is possible.

And then you need to get society to agree in what's insane and what's not. There was an interesting SF book I read some years ago, can't remember the name, where one of the really powerful cultures was made up of autistic Eskimos. (yes, really) If ways of thinking we consider pathological today are considered normal in the future, then they won't ever be cured. There are some issues that have changed from being considered pathological to within the normal range inside my own lifetime, which isn't all that long. Who knows what will happen in the future.

 

[WayneLigon]

Your point of the replicators is a good one. While there may exist a society that has moved past scarcity, that doesn't mean that they are willing to share it.

Replicators by their very definition could churn out replicators; they're intrinsically Von Neumann machines.
Another good example are the fabbers in Ringo's Live Free or Die; they can make anything they have a template for, up to and including another fabber. There, they are limited by the availability of a certain class of AI controller.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Another issue I have with replicators in a post-scarcity world: if you can replicate nuclear weapons, I would expect the setting to go from post-scarcity to post-apocalypse very quickly. It only takes one nutjob to get things going. This type of post-scarcity seems like a very unstable state.

 

[herrozerro]

Replicators by their very definition could churn out replicators; they're intrinsically Von Neumann machines.
Another good example are the fabbers in Ringo's Live Free or Die; they can make anything they have a template for, up to and including another fabber. There, they are limited by the availability of a certain class of AI controller.

In the Nova Praxis game I mentioned, Replicator technology is heavily controlled by the oppressive coalition. Like I said, just because it can make more machines, doesn't mean that it can. These were machine overrides that were built into the machines as well.