Power Attack and Auto-Damage

[Hypersmurf]

Can Power Attack be used with auto-damage attack forms?

For example, Dragon Turtles have Power Attack. With their Snatch ability, if they get a hold on a creature three or more sizes smaller, they automatically deal bite damage each round.

Could they use a -12/+12 Power Attack to add to the bite damage... even though they aren't making an attack roll? "Bite damage" refers to "Bite +18 melee, 4d6+8", and Power Attack applies to melee damage...

If it does not move and takes no other action in combat, it deals double bite damage to the snatched creature.

Would PA damage double also?

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I'm assuming you can't apply PA to the auto-damage from, say, Swallow Whole, since "stomach bludgeon" does not appear as a melee attack in the stat block...

-Hyp.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

i don't see why not.

i think the Dragon Turtle's BAB is +10 (+18 minus +8 for a 27 Str), so damage on a full-out power attacked bite would be 4d6+18.

"if it does not move and takes no other attacks action in combat, it deals double bite damage to the snatched creature", so that's 8d6+36. ouch!

 

[Crothian]

Ya, it should be fine to allow PA to that kind of attack. And yes, the power attack damage would be doubled as well.

 

[Hypersmurf]

i think the Dragon Turtle's BAB is +10 (+18 minus +8 for a 27 Str), so damage on a full-out power attacked bite would be 4d6+18.

BAB +12. It's a 12HD Dragon, and Dragons get full BAB progression.

BAB +12, Strength +8, Size Huge -2 gives you the +18.

-Hyp.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

oops!

ok, 4d6+20, and 8d6+40 - that hurts!

 

[Archer]

You can't use power attack on automatic damage. You have to make the roll. This is a finer point from an obscure source but its one of those rule 0.1 rules that are implied and only explicitly stated in non-core sources.

 

[Darkness]

You can't use power attack on automatic damage. You have to make the roll. This is a finer point from an obscure source but its one of those rule 0.1 rules that are implied and only explicitly stated in non-core sources.

Where, for example? And what other such rules are there (and where)?

 

[Brekki]

You shouldn't be able to use PA, because it's not a melee attack roll, and the damage is not from melee attack.

 

[gfunk]

In our campaign, we have always allowed power attacking when used for a coup de grace. It is a (a) melee attack and (b) an automatic hit.

 

[dcollins]

I also don't think that Power Attack should be applied to non-melee-attack abilities like Snatch or Constrict. I'd have to rule that special abilities like these, which are not strictly using a melee attack, do not count as "melee damage rolls", and therefore Power Attack would not apply.

That's definitely a gray area in the rules, I'll admit.