Power Attack for Ranged Weapons

[Darklone]

Meleers get + to hit and damage from one stat, archers get it from two (if they get damage at all... damn crossbows).

Crossbow Sniper (PHB2).

Archers have to take two feats just to not get a -4 to hit in many situations (pbs and precise shot).
Archers provoke attacks of opportunity whenever they attack.
Archers have to pay extra to apply their strength bonus to damage.

Yippeeee, another archers are screwed discussion, we didn't have that one for... years?

Archers go full attack all day. PBS is a really good feat that everyone would love for melee. Rapid Shot is a great feat as well.

Archers have to worry about carry ammunition.

Archers rock at using different materials for their arrows together with their main weapon.

Archers don't threaten areas around them (and thus can't take attacks of opportunity and don't count for flanking).

Archers kill wizards before the spellcasters close to fireball range.

I think giving them a power attack equivalent is fine. I think the 30' limitation is fair, given how pretty much every other ranged attack booster works. I don't think it needs to be a single attack per round. You already get huge negatives for your iterative attacks... with power attack they're even less likely to hit.

All power attack is, is a very generalized "Called shot" mechanism.... it's harder to hit, but if you do, you do more damage.

Make it require Point Blank Shot and +1 BAB and you're fine.

-Nate

Agreed about the Power Attack thing. It would have been too strong in 3.0 with enhancement bonus from arrows and bow stacking... but now it shouldn't be a big problem.

 

[The Souljourner]

Archers kill wizards before the spellcasters close to fireball range.

Don't want to have an "archers suck" discussion... but come on, I can't let this one pass. Even at the lowest level you get fireball, its range is 600'. That's 5 range increments even for a composite longbow... which is -10 to hit. Even a wizard is going to get missed by that most of the time

-Nate

 

[Darklone]

Don't want to have an "archers suck" discussion... but come on, I can't let this one pass. Even at the lowest level you get fireball, its range is 600'. That's 5 range increments even for a composite longbow... which is -10 to hit. Even a wizard is going to get missed by that most of the time

I have to admit that the first time it happened in game was against a level 10 wizard who didn't have many spells left (but followed us into the desert after a huge battle in town to attack us with a scroll and summoned elementals).... so a Prot from Arrows would have saved him

His biggest problem was: I shot his horse first, no cover around and my chars movement was much higher. He couldn't close, he couldn't get away, he might have digged himself a hole. It was not easy to hit him but not impossible either.

After it worked once, the players seemed to like it and tried to repeat it now and then... with success.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

That's just way too powerful for a ranged attack. You'll find that your combats are over before they began.

In the hands of orcs and other classed enemies, you'll find that the PC's wizard is dead within moments.

If you need a bow to do more damage, go with the composite bow strength bonuses the standard feats.

Did you note that you had to be within 30ft of the target in order to use the feat? It also requires a standard action to use so you can't use the Full Attack Action with it.

Olaf the Stout

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Did you note that you had to be within 30ft of the target in order to use the feat? It also requires a standard action to use so you can't use the Full Attack Action with it.

I noted it.
I also noted that it was a 1 for 2 exchange in attack loss to damage gain.
Make it a 2 for 1 and it would be balanced, maybe.

In other words treat it like a short sword and not a greatsword.

 

[hong]

I noted it.
I also noted that it was a 1 for 2 exchange in attack loss to damage gain.
Make it a 2 for 1 and it would be balanced, maybe.

In other words treat it like a short sword and not a greatsword.

Are you nuts?

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Are you nuts?

It's debatable.

Look at the potential damage done on a crit at level 6.

Take a composite longbow with a +2 strength bonus & PBS.
normal: 1d8 + 2 + 1 = 4 - 11 damage (avg 7.5)
crit: 3d8 + 6 + 3 = 12 - 33 damage (avg 20.5)
Plenty enough to take out similar level low hit point classes.

Add double the power attack bonus maxxed.
normal: 1d8 + 2 + 1 + 12 = 16 - 23 (avg 19.5)
crit: 3d8 + 6 + 3 + 36 = 48 - 69 (avg 58.5)
More than enough to take out most classes.

Add half the power attack bonus.
normal: 1d8 + 2 + 1 + 3 = 7 - 14 (avg 10.5)
crit: 3d8 + 6 + 3 + 9 = 21 - 42 (avg 31.5)
Enough to make your party nervous about the combat.

Even at "short sword" power, it makes Point Blank Shot look like it was nothing.

 

[irdeggman]

Meleers get + to hit and damage from one stat, archers get it from two (if they get damage at all... damn crossbows).

The same stat that adds to armor class and reflex saving throws applies to ranged attacks.

Archers have to take two feats just to not get a -4 to hit in many situations (pbs and precise shot).

Point Blank Shot adds +1 to attack and damage w/i 30 ft

Archers provoke attacks of opportunity whenever they attack.

When threatened. But since they attack at range that shouldn't be an issue.

Or they could use the elvencraft bow from Races of the Wild as a melee weapon.

Archers have to pay extra to apply their strength bonus to damage.

Yup, but it is at range and not melee. Usually you can get in several rounds of shots before the melee fighters get within striking distance. But once that happens, well . . .

Archers have to worry about carry ammunition.

Their equipment also tends to have less encumbrance.

Archers don't threaten areas around them (and thus can't take attacks of opportunity and don't count for flanking).

See elvencraft bow.

[/QUOTE]

 

[hong]

It's debatable.

Look at the potential damage done on a crit at level 6.

A greataxe can do more, and twice in a round. Your point is...?

 

[BlueBlackRed]

A greataxe can do more, and twice in a round. Your point is...?

Because once the guy with the greataxe finishes off his opponent he has to move to a new target, which isn't always conveniently right there. Plus there can be other opponents blocking his path.

Someone with a bow just needs to pick a new target and move within 30' of the guy (which usually isn't a problem). If he doesn't like his new target (too hard to hit from high AC), he just picks a new target that's more appealing.
Also, he's not taking melee damage the entire time (if he gets in melee, it's probably not by choice), while his friend with the greataxe might not be so lucky.