Power Attack too useful? When is it NOT taken?

[S'mon]

I've been playing a greatsword-wielding 5th level Fighter in a PBEM the past few weeks, my AC is 15 (it's a desert scenario, I wear studded leather) and I've never been hit, because I Power Attack and I kill everything nearby in 1 round. I find Charge + 5 pt PA (for 2d6+17 damage) is good; or Flank + 5 pt PA, or just normal attack at 3 pt PA for 2d6+13. I Cleave & Weapon Spec too of course. In the last fight our party of (I think) 6 PCs faced 12 desert zombies; I killed 9, the other 5 PCs between them killed 3. I think that says it all.

 

[S'mon]

My only complaint with PA is with it having no upper ceiling save the character's BAB. Combat Expertise has that +5 cap, and the difference bugs me for some reason.

You could cap PA at +5 and it wouldn't be underpowered. You would need to houserule DR though at high levels, eg there's an Epic Feat that gives + 3 DR, no cap. With PA capped at -5/+10 (for 2-handed weapon) you probably shouldn't allow DR to go above about 15.

 

[KarinsDad]

I've been playing a greatsword-wielding 5th level Fighter in a PBEM the past few weeks, my AC is 15 (it's a desert scenario, I wear studded leather) and I've never been hit, because I Power Attack and I kill everything nearby in 1 round. I find Charge + 5 pt PA (for 2d6+17 damage) is good; or Flank + 5 pt PA, or just normal attack at 3 pt PA for 2d6+13. I Cleave & Weapon Spec too of course. In the last fight our party of (I think) 6 PCs faced 12 desert zombies; I killed 9, the other 5 PCs between them killed 3. I think that says it all.

I think it says that you have an unusual campaign where ACs are too low.

If you played that character in my campaign, you would find things more challenging.

For example, the PCs have just had 3 major battles with demons in 3 days and the group told the Barbarian/Ranger mega-damage PC after the second battle that he was not allowed to face off against the BBEG demon (who gets 5 heavy damage attacks in a full round attack) anymore because that PC just gets wounded too quickly (these PCs are 7th level, the B/R has an AC in the 18 to 20 range depending, and the BBEG is a Vrock).

 

[Khayman]

You could cap PA at +5 and it wouldn't be underpowered. You would need to houserule DR though at high levels, eg there's an Epic Feat that gives + 3 DR, no cap. With PA capped at -5/+10 (for 2-handed weapon) you probably shouldn't allow DR to go above about 15.

Not that bad a solution, for lower levels, anyway. (I have yet to see Epic-level anything in any of our games, so the DR issue may be a moot point.)

 

[Bryan898]

It used to be said that if a feat was a no-brainer; if it was always taken regardless of build; if no serious fighter ever failed to have it -- then the feat was probably too good/overpowered.

Some feats are just better than others. You're going to have that, it's nearly impossible to balance all the feats. Power attack is the "gate" feat to the Str based feat tree, so it was designed that it would be needed by any Str based fighter. The same could be said of Dodge for mobility based combatants, and Combat Expertise for tactical combatants. It's designed to be needed, but that doesn't make it overpowered. I've rarely, if ever, seen a PC do tons of damage because of Power Attack, except in special circumstances. (Lucky shot when taking -20, using it with Smite Evil, Spirited Charge, Brilliant Energy weapons).

Personally, I prefer to use power attack to increase damage in situations where my attack is increased. If someone casts bless, I'll use the +1 attack to add to my damage. Flanking add +2, charging +2, etc. Otherwise I use it when attacking something with a low AC, an insanely high AC, high DR, or objects.

 

[Thanee]

My only complaint with PA is with it having no upper ceiling save the character's BAB. Combat Expertise has that +5 cap, and the difference bugs me for some reason.

The difference is, that while PA auto-corrects itself with a lower to hit chance, which automatically also lowers the average damage done, CE does not, because the lower to hit chance does not really affect what you are trying to do (raise AC).

And raising AC can have a rather huge effect.

Bye
Thanee

 

[VorpalStare]

As alluded to a few posts ago, Power Attack forces PC melee fighters to have a decent AC. Melee fighers must put significant resources into personal protection, rather than just all offense. Otherwise you run into the problem of high level characters all running around with AC 15, since many monsters hit most of the time anyway.

For example, a fighter with an AC of 15 facing PA'ing giants with attack bonuses of +25 is in a world of hurt, but the same fighter with an AC of 25 or so will take significantly less damage, since the Giants can't afford to hit him as hard.

Weakening PA would effectively weaken the benefits of AC in general, especially in the mid-high levels.

 

[Nail]

I've been playing a greatsword-wielding 5th level Fighter in a PBEM the past few weeks,....

By 5th level, the front-line fighters in both of my groups were getting taken down on a regular basis. I'm not sure what your DM is thinking, but being able to put down your 5th level Ftr/Bbn is a piece of cake at that EL (and AC!).

 

[Staffan]

My house rule for power attack is that the damage bonus gets the same modifier as Str bonus: x1.5 for two-handed weapons, and x0.5 for off-hand weapons. Light weapons wielded in the main hand get full damage bonus. This means that it's about as effective for two-weapon fighters as it is for two-handed fighters: both essentially get a multiplier of 1.5 (though two-weapon fighters usually can't afford as much of a penalty, as they're already dealing with a -2 or more).

 

[Thanee]

I think that says it all.

Yep, against a barely double digit AC that works well, but against decently armored opponents you'll need more than +7 to hit.

Bye
Thanee