Power Attack!?!?!?!?!?!?

[dcollins]

I don't have my books with me, but I'm sure this is talked about either in the opening section of the MM or in the D&D FAQ.

So still no one has come up with a quote from the rules that monster feats are freely swappable, even though everyone seems so convinced of its obviousness.

For monsters with classes (either 1HD monsters, classes added, or advanced monsters), then selecting feats can surely be up to the DM. But until someone actually finds language that a monster can choose to switch out their listed feats (which sure looks like it doesn't exist), I'm not buying it. It doesn't make any sense, for example, that an animal like a Hawk could have chosen to get alternate training and choose a feat other than its listed Weapon Focus, etc.

 

[Jeremy]

Animals, beasts, constructs, plants, vermin, and other non-intelligent creatures don't get feats.

They are all awarded virtual finesse if their dex is higher than their strength that's all. So no, they couldn't change their training.

But intelligent creatures have a choice about what they learn.

 

[palin]

1)

A Hawk is an animal and not an intelligent creature, like a Gnoll, Orc, Hobgoblin, etc.

2)

If you are the DM you could do ANYTHING you wanted to the creatues, whenever you wanted. I would however suggest some sort of consistency and thought behind it ...

So you, as a DM, could give the Hobgoblin the group is facing Point Blank Shot, instead of Alterness ... This particular Hobgolbin just took to the bow well and spent a LOT of time using it while growing up ... He isn't as alert as the rest, perhaps because he is so focued on his bow...

My 2c

 

[Berk]

I didn't mean to say that you couldn't swap the feat out for something else more to the DM's liking. I meant to say why are all the common, now that means more then half of the creatures you will meet of that race, have just plain old silly feats as their default selection. It's just ridiculous to give power attack to a creature with a BaB of +1 or 2. And don't even say "Well hey, that extra 1 or 2 points of damage will mean a lot". Well you know what, it won't mean squat since it is just that much harder to hit someone now. And face it, 1 or 2 points of damage isn't all that important.

 

[Kosh]

And face it, 1 or 2 points of damage isn't all that important.

I disagree on this point...

At lower levels (when PCs actually fight these low HD monsters) one or two points of damage can mean a lot... When I DM or am a PC in low level games, I find that those few precious HP I have are not to be wasted... Not only does a power-attacking foe make me more worried about dropping, but also about future combats later in the day (before healing, remember, at low levels there aren't many Cure Light Wound spells to go around)...

I know that Power Attack lowers average damage mathematically, but Gnolls don't seem to be the calculating type to me ...

 

[Berk]

I disagree on this point...

We could disagree on that point for years. To me, the extra 1 or 2 points of damage that it MIGHT cause aren't that big of a deal, even at lower levels. Been there, done that, played it enough to know for myself. Sure it will matter for a wizard or sorcerer and maybe even a rogue, but for them at 1st or 2nd level, any hit has the potential to put em down outrite.

 

[IceBear]

Maybe instead of powergaming the monster's stats, they were picking the best feats based on roleplaying the monster. Sure, there might be better feats for a gnoll to take that would make it a tougher monster, but when I think about a typical gnoll, power attack just seems to "fit" with how I see it behaving in combat.

IceBear

 

[thalmin]

Maybe, to not make the monster too powerful for the PC's to kill, the designers of D&D decided to "burn" the feat.

 

[dcollins]

But intelligent creatures have a choice about what they learn.

No sale here, until you or anyone else can present a rules quote justifying this assertion.

 

[IceBear]

Well, I don't know of any rule, but I wouldn't have too much of an issue if a feat for an intelligent monster was swapped out. As the MM says - the monsters presented are average for their race.

Just like I might increase the stats of a specific individual monster, I could see justifying the swapping of a feat if it makes sense.

IceBear