PP powers cant be retrained; Can they power swap?

[Nifft]

Also, the Ambitious Effort ability (the one you must be thinking of, the one that gives you an extra trained encounter power from your class) says that it can be retrained at 21st to chose a higher level power, so I'm not sure that you can retrain that one willy nilly either.

At 21st level, you can replace this power with an encounter attack power of 13th level or lower from your class (instead of 7th level or lower).

The 21st level sentence could be interpreted to say that when you retrain, your choices have expanded (from 7th or lower to 13th or lower).

Or it could be interpreted to mean that the only chance you get to retrain is 21st level (and the level increase is just a side note).

I can't find one reading more supported than the other.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Eldorian]

Shielding Familiar and Spellseer Familiar allow you to replace any 6th level or higher Utility power.

Cheers, -- N

Anyone arguing with this one? I really hate my paragon utility (demonskin adapt).

 

[CapnZapp]

You should ask your DM. If your DM agrees, you can do anything, remember?

(You can't retrain your choice of paragon path, just as you can't retrain your choice of class build. This is the one choice you make at 1st level you will have to live with all the way to level 30. Again, unless you get your DMs permission... Personally, I feel it is much better to be lenient as a DM here - the alternative of the player suiciding his character is far far more disruptive)

 

[CapnZapp]

Anyone arguing with this one? I really hate my paragon utility (demonskin adapt).

You will have to ask your DM to switch paragon paths altogether.

You can't switch out just the parts you don't like. Several PPs have strong options in some places, only to be balanced by weak choices elsewhere.

Being able to switch out only parts of a PP would be crazily broken. I sincerely recommend your DM to not allow it under any circumstances. (And he or she certainly does not have to do it - per RAW, it is clearly impossible)

 

[Eldorian]

Being able to switch out only parts of a PP would be crazily broken. I sincerely recommend your DM to not allow it under any circumstances. (And he or she certainly does not have to do it - per RAW, it is clearly impossible)

The feat replaces a utility power, doesn't say it retrains or uses any other language. How is it clearly wrong by RAW?

 

[abyssaldeath]

You can’t use power-swap feats to replace powers
you gain from your paragon path or epic destiny.

Under the rules for multiclassing it is not allowed.

 

[Turtlejay]

I think they were referring to the Familiar Feats. That language is referring to multiclassing. Maybe you could argue that it applies, but It would be a hard sell. Has anyone tried to see if the Character Builder allows it?

Jay

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Even assuming you CAN use one of the Familiar feats to swap out a PP power it still has to be a utility power, so you only have one choice and the only thing you get to swap in is something which is probably fairly good, but not necessarily incredible. The powers these feats give you are also not THAT hard to duplicate other ways for most characters. They aren't bad, but are they really worth a 16th level power? Probably not in most cases. Hard to say if this was intended or accidental, but either way it certainly doesn't seem like something needing fixing.

 

[Destil]

I think they were referring to the Familiar Feats. That language is referring to multiclassing. Maybe you could argue that it applies, but It would be a hard sell. Has anyone tried to see if the Character Builder allows it?

Jay

I'm actually fairly weary of using CB to validate rules. Aside from bugs the problem is that it creates three competing 'views' of a rule, rather than two.

Books only we have Rules as Written and Rules as Intended.

Once you add in CB you also get Rules as Implemented by Database Limitations... and it's my secrete suspison is that this is where the weird change on the ruling of Two Weapon Fighting and Weapon Focus affecting implement powers came from. The CB doesn't differentiate between implements and weapons as well as it should (or shouldn't: quarterstaff vs. implement staff).

That aside I see no reason why the familiar feats wouldn't work as written.