[PR] The Association of OGL Publishers

[RangerWickett]

I dunno, I kinda hate to disappoint the guy. If you want, I can start acting mean and elitist. I've already stepped on Mongoose's toes a couple times in the past (and again, I apologize for coming across badly sometimes), and I could easily start dissin' all you hate-a's.

I'm eagerly planning to buy all your products, type them up freehand, and sell the whole thing as a 500MB pdf file, for $1. And I'll make sure to mess up the section 15 notice, too.

Sorry about this . . . it's 6 am.

Wait, supervillains aren't supposed to apologize. Huh . . . I have to ask: As a villainous D20 Publisher, how am I supposed to abuse the OGC and take advantage of others? Ideas really aren't coming to me. Any advice? Maybe we should have a villainous focus group.

 

[FDP Mike]

Unbelievable . . .

I'd call it unthinking blind obediance and kowtowing to people who use their business position and connections to justify not only selfish and self-serving political platforms, but rude and boorish behavior and intimidation tactics. It's about time someone stood up and called a spade a spade.

You misunderstand my point completely. It's just that in every group there's an informal leader. Sometimes leaders come to the fore through positive works - and sometimes through obnoxious intimidation. Sadly, some leaders who rose via the first method, rely on the second to maintain their position when they feel it slipping. The irony, of course, is that it's not the leader's actions that are even relevent - it's the followers that count. If all they can conceive of is following (like the proverbial sheep), then they have found the ideal leader, as well as a sense of security.

A few basic business principles could go a long way to helping this industry grow and thrive - but first we have to get past the "cult of the personality" that reigns here (and its condescending attitude).

First of all, while I most certainly don't speak for the other FDP guys, I can say that after this display of innuendo, barely veiled accusations, and general ignorance of OGL/d20 publishing, I personally would never join your supposed trade organization.

In fact, you have at times even shocked me with your willingness to spread inaccurate information and to hail yourself as some sort of anti-establishment revolutionary come to make the world a better place for all of us poor, downtrodden, oppressed d20 publishers. (Clark, FDP's bi-monthly dues are, uh, in the mail . . . . All hail the Demon Prince!) In regard to most of your comments, I have tried to put Fiery Dragon in this apparent position of "kowtowing" and "following" that you believe currently hampers the industry -- and, quite frankly, I just don't see it. Not one single "leader" or "personality" has ever in any way tried to prevent FDP from doing anything. Moreover, at the beginning, before 3E was released and the SRD made available, FDP did its research. That's right, we at FDP empowered ourselves to learn about not just the RPG industry but everything else that comes with being a publisher. No men in slick black suits with slick black sunglasses and driving ultra-slick black cars pulled up to our houses and gave us the "Cease & desist, you are dealing with things beyond your ability to comprehend" speech. (Then again, I've never met Clark in person, so maybe that guy back from a year or so ago was . . . . Naw, couldn't be!)

Here are your "leaders," in some sort of relative order (and please, no offence meant to anyone): WotC; then WW/S&SS; then other "pre-established" publishers such as AEG, Atlas, FFG, and maybe others I'm missing; then the newer d20 publishers such as Necromancer Games, Green Ronin, Mongoose, Malhavoc Press, and so forth. Any "intimidation," therefore, should be coming from The Top -- the only place where any real power to "restrict" the use of the OGL lies. Sure, it would be great if WotC released more of the SRD and added more material to it; other than this delay, however, WotC has basically proven rather generous in allowing all of us d20 publishers to make contributions to a game we love dearly. People such as Clark Peterson and John Nephew are, in fact, much of the reason why you see something of a spirit of comaraderie among d20 publishers.

So, why don't you perhaps try a couple of things. First, maybe stop using this forum as a means to take poorly disguised jabs at Clark Peterson. This tactic won't get you anywhere; it will cause most people to view you with suspicion and as someone who truly is not informed about what's going on. Second, please stop presenting yourself as some kind of "revolutionary" come to rally the masses and give them power in a world that supposedly oppresses their rights. You may not like it, but to gain respect you need to demonstrate that you are involved in this industry more substantially than an empty web site, a message board, a phantom "trade organization," and no published products.

Oh, and are you planning on answering Lizard's questions at some point? I would be very interested to see your proof, your data.

 

[Ashtal]

Nemisis - you need a reality check the size of Cleveland.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said by people up and down the spectrum of the d20 publishing community (from the corporate 'evils' to the little guy you seem to want to protect from the boogyman), but you are fundamentally wrong on many levels.

You haven't participated in the industry - this you have not denied. And this is why you've got it wrong:

1) You haven't created any OGL products, so you cannot speak to the issues surrounding them, such as how readily information is available, legal restrictions, the support companies and individual receive from each other, and all the rest.

2) You haven't created ANY product, thereby coming to the table with extremely limited information on how the game industry works at all (your question about how much of a product must be OGL to be profitable an example of this).

3) You are not a GAMA member, and cannot speak to the issues surrounding how well they support, or fail to support, the gaming community, d20 publishers in specific.

So this is why people are coming into this conversation stunned, and even a little offended. How can you say you have the information and the knowledge to start an organization that will do all the things you say it will do; things that are already done, mind you, and the rest being completely unnecessary (though imaginative).

But beyond all that, your attitude has been arrogant, disruptive and ridiculous. You curb the accusations, the slurs and the slander, ASAP. The people you are talking with in this thread ARE THE LITTLE GUYS. They are helpful, responsive, experienced and accessable. You cannot improve on the open, informal network of trust built by OGL users since WotC so graciously took a step into entirely new territory by releasing the OGL and the d20 license. There has been no abuse thankfully because of the people who are involved. And quite honestly, reading your initial post/thread, you struck me as the kind who would take advantage of the OGL in the worst way, ruining what has been so delicately and honorably built.

So, can it. Take it elsewhere. As long as you continue to talk the way you do to the people of these boards, I'm gonna be locking your threads. I've had enough of the outright misinformation and innuendo. We aren't going to be a vehicle for your agenda.


Ashtal