John Kantor
I think I've run across this name on <rec.games.frp.misc> before. Anybody else?
I think I've run across this name on <rec.games.frp.misc> before. Anybody else?
[PR] The Association of OGL Publishers
- Thread starter NemesisPress
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MEG Hal
First Post
EricNoah said:
I will tell you that everyone in this business I have met with face to face I have truly enjoyed, and yes the advice, writer/art name swapping, borrowing ideas, places to share (Bluffside), printer info etc have only been happily agreed to. Heck one of my confidants and best friends in this business is now my "boss" Doug from MEG. I love the cons...why? So I can see the guys from---Bastion, Troll Lords, MEG, Mongoose, Green Ronin, Paradigm to name some (not all). I work in another field by day (at the moment) but can't wait till we can make it full time, I really enjoy all aspects of this job and have had no bad dealings with other companies. So while the business is tight and "cutthroat" every player I know in the business is not!
See all my buddies at GenCon---YYYIIIPPEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
JohnNephew
First Post
NemesisPress said:
I'm not sure how you get more "real-world support" than the things GAMA and GPA do. The former is a fully professional trade organization, coordinating awards (the Origins Awards), an industry trade show (the GAMA Trade Show in Las Vegas, which any serious D20 publisher should attend, member of GAMA or not -- and you don't have to be a member to go), and a consumer trade show (Origins). They are working on another trade show in Europe, to help grow the market further by providing more opportunity to communicate directly with European retailers and distributors. GAMA's membership includes not just manufacturers of all stripes, but retailers and distributors (albeit not as full voting members), including members of those groups serving as industry officers. With the help of some very generous retailers, GAMA has supported retailer oriented programming -- helping stores run their business better concretely improves the industry for everyone.
The GPA is more informational in nature, and more geared toward new/starting companies. It's a great networking tool, for learning more of the basics of the biz, getting connected to printers and the like, etc. The GPA also has at least in the past arranged shared booth space, so even if you couldn't attend the GAMA show in Las Vegas, for example, you could have your items in a booth with other GPA members for the buyers in attendance to see.
Why has there not been a D20 specific committee or sub-group in either of these organizations? Probably because no one working in the D20 field considers it necessary. The hard stuff -- things that require budgets, staff (GAMA has multiple full-time salaried employees), etc. -- is already covered by GAMA. The other issues (sharing information, debating the license, collaborations between companies) happen naturally without any kind of organization, in places like this forum, in private exchanges between publishers, on the OGL mailing list, etc.
So...well, I don't see any need for a new trade association, and I can't imagine it being worth any dues, since I don't really know what it could start up and do better than existing organizations (or better than those orgs could do if their members decided it was worth doing).
Out of curiousity, who do you have signing on at the outset? I assume that before launching something major like a trade organization, you've already talked with some other publishers behind the scenes, so you'll have a core of interested parties to rally further interest and lobby people to join, yes?
Ghostwind
First Post
After sitting here reading everything that has been said, I believe two things are happening. First off, Nemesis has decided that his proposal has merit (whether unfounded or not is irrelevant for the moment). He truly feels the need for some sort of competitive trade organization to give the "small guys" a so-called voice in the industry. Secondly, he is consistently being proven wrong.
Earlier in this thread, he quoted several statements that were supposedly said by individuals who are a part of this so called conspiracy. My first response when reading these quotes was "Where is the supporting references? Who said these statements?" If you are going to quote someone you should properly attribute that quote if you expect people to respect your opinion.
I believe that every publisher who has voiced their opinion against this trade association proposal is right on the mark (especially Clark). I have been involved at all levels of corporate management and I have to say that I have never seen the level of cooperation in any aspect of corporate business that I have seen with gaming publishers. While there may be petty squabbling that happens at times, by and large this has to be the friendliest group of competitors I have ever encountered. (You want to talk cutthroat? Let's talk about the automotive industry.)
These publishers freely share ideas and will talk about current projects under development. There are no trade secrets. Need to use product identity from another publisher? Just ask. Odds are you will get permission. Want to set down, have a beer and talk about gaming trends and look for honest advice? I can name at least ten publishers off the top of my head who would do that.
My point is that the necessity of starting a trade organization is completely off the mark. All the tools a publisher could possibly need are already available. If Nemesis truly believes in the necessity of starting this organization, there is nothing anyone can say that will change his mind. However, I agree with nearly everyone here that if he really feels that there are problems in the industry, they should be taken up with a legitmate and already existing association that publishers already belong to, namely GAMA. You want to effect change, start there not by trying to form something founded on a bed of untruths and unconfirmed allegations.
Earlier in this thread, he quoted several statements that were supposedly said by individuals who are a part of this so called conspiracy. My first response when reading these quotes was "Where is the supporting references? Who said these statements?" If you are going to quote someone you should properly attribute that quote if you expect people to respect your opinion.
I believe that every publisher who has voiced their opinion against this trade association proposal is right on the mark (especially Clark). I have been involved at all levels of corporate management and I have to say that I have never seen the level of cooperation in any aspect of corporate business that I have seen with gaming publishers. While there may be petty squabbling that happens at times, by and large this has to be the friendliest group of competitors I have ever encountered. (You want to talk cutthroat? Let's talk about the automotive industry.)
These publishers freely share ideas and will talk about current projects under development. There are no trade secrets. Need to use product identity from another publisher? Just ask. Odds are you will get permission. Want to set down, have a beer and talk about gaming trends and look for honest advice? I can name at least ten publishers off the top of my head who would do that.
My point is that the necessity of starting a trade organization is completely off the mark. All the tools a publisher could possibly need are already available. If Nemesis truly believes in the necessity of starting this organization, there is nothing anyone can say that will change his mind. However, I agree with nearly everyone here that if he really feels that there are problems in the industry, they should be taken up with a legitmate and already existing association that publishers already belong to, namely GAMA. You want to effect change, start there not by trying to form something founded on a bed of untruths and unconfirmed allegations.
Orcus
First Post
Oops! Sorry Chris. 
I wasnt sure if you had full time people that only did GR stuff. I didnt mean to leave you off the list.
Congratulations and welcome to the machine! You are now part of the establishment conspiracy. Your "How to Conspire Against Other d20 Companies" packet will be in the mail to you shortly, put together by WotC themselves, since they actually are behind all of this and funding all us "big time" guys secretly. Welcome aboard! Oh, and you can expect tons of money to come rolling in any time now from our overseas cohorts.
You will be recieving your new secret name soon as well as the club handshake and password. These will be required for admittance to our yearly Bavarian Enclave meeting with the Overlord.
Clark
[edit: oops! did I just post that to a public forum? I'm dead]
I wasnt sure if you had full time people that only did GR stuff. I didnt mean to leave you off the list. Congratulations and welcome to the machine! You are now part of the establishment conspiracy. Your "How to Conspire Against Other d20 Companies" packet will be in the mail to you shortly, put together by WotC themselves, since they actually are behind all of this and funding all us "big time" guys secretly. Welcome aboard! Oh, and you can expect tons of money to come rolling in any time now from our overseas cohorts.
You will be recieving your new secret name soon as well as the club handshake and password. These will be required for admittance to our yearly Bavarian Enclave meeting with the Overlord.
Clark
[edit: oops! did I just post that to a public forum? I'm dead]
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that Nemesis is the revolutionary genius, and the rest of us are fools.
Shouldn't that be the other way around, I mean to say that Nemesis is the revolutionary fool, and the rest of us are, well at least logical-and reasonably intelligent.
Nem if you don't like the system that is here or you have a bone to pick with it then do something more than Hypothetical philosophy that paints you out to be a jerk with a major case of High Uppens.
As a person outside the box I come to this thread and read your (Erics Grandmother) nonsense, and I loose some of my enjoyment for the boards.
Be more friendly, make some good products and then maybe we'll listen to what your saying. I understand some of your concepts, I repeat some, the RPG Industry is reaching a Platue it happens with every new inovation. Don't force feed the incorperation of the small frys to soon you'll hender not help the creative atmosphere.
Again take peoples advice and gets some products up off the ground, and out of your head. It's not a case of zombieism here its that we need to see your work to have faith in your confederation of Ogl small guys
Right now all your doing is spewing page after page of hot air, and I finally got sick of it.
Show your faith in the system by your works, not by words.
Oh and one last time Get something out.
Your like the wannabe writer who says he's writing the greatest novel ever, but never turns anything out.
Either Publish something or stop waisting our time
Shouldn't that be the other way around, I mean to say that Nemesis is the revolutionary fool, and the rest of us are, well at least logical-and reasonably intelligent.
Nem if you don't like the system that is here or you have a bone to pick with it then do something more than Hypothetical philosophy that paints you out to be a jerk with a major case of High Uppens.
As a person outside the box I come to this thread and read your (Erics Grandmother) nonsense, and I loose some of my enjoyment for the boards.
Be more friendly, make some good products and then maybe we'll listen to what your saying. I understand some of your concepts, I repeat some, the RPG Industry is reaching a Platue it happens with every new inovation. Don't force feed the incorperation of the small frys to soon you'll hender not help the creative atmosphere.
Again take peoples advice and gets some products up off the ground, and out of your head. It's not a case of zombieism here its that we need to see your work to have faith in your confederation of Ogl small guys
Right now all your doing is spewing page after page of hot air, and I finally got sick of it.
Show your faith in the system by your works, not by words.
Oh and one last time Get something out.
Your like the wannabe writer who says he's writing the greatest novel ever, but never turns anything out.
Either Publish something or stop waisting our time
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Don't worry about it, this happens every 3 or 4 years. We'll get Icke to write another expose about the conspiracy, and add in some stuff about the reptoids. Then The Fortean Timeswill do a story, followed by some bits on the better known conspiracy sites.
Meantime we'll put together new secret codes, meeting places, all the rest of it. (I hear the Russian Tea Room space is available again.)
At worst you'll be dead for a week or two (has to be some kind of punishment after all). Then you'll be back preparing humanity for the conquest.
(No, it's not the kind a conquest you're thinking of. No, I'm not going to tell you what sort of conquest it is. I will give you a hint. Harry Potter has nothing to do with it.)
Oh, Clark, this is the second time you've divulged our secrets. One more time and your deaths start being measured in years.
Mythusmage, (not so) secret lord of the (DnD) cabal (tinc)
Meantime we'll put together new secret codes, meeting places, all the rest of it. (I hear the Russian Tea Room space is available again.)
At worst you'll be dead for a week or two (has to be some kind of punishment after all). Then you'll be back preparing humanity for the conquest.
(No, it's not the kind a conquest you're thinking of. No, I'm not going to tell you what sort of conquest it is. I will give you a hint. Harry Potter has nothing to do with it.)
Oh, Clark, this is the second time you've divulged our secrets. One more time and your deaths start being measured in years.
Mythusmage, (not so) secret lord of the (DnD) cabal (tinc)
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NemesisPress said:
Ah, OK. It's for Americans only. Those in other countries do not count as businesses. Thanks for clearing that up - you might want to mention it somewhere on your site.
[Edit - just finished reading the thread - Doug Herring has pointed out that even in YOUR country, you've got it wrong.]
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Vigilance
Explorer
John...
John, you and I have talked a few times (thorugh the Vigilance yahoo group and elsewhere), so I hope you can take this in the spirit that its intended.
I think the best thing you could do to make a contribution to the OGL industry is to contribute something to it. I know that's what you're trying to do with your association, but I think a better way to go about it would be to write something original.
A module, a sourcebook, the book that you always hope to see for sale when you fire up rpgnow but no one has written yet? That's the book you should write.
In the three months since I published Vigilance on rpgnow I have literally not met a single other publisher who was anything but kind and supportive.
It's an experience I wouldn't trade for anything.
If you want to help the OGL Publishing community, I think that's the place to start.
John, you and I have talked a few times (thorugh the Vigilance yahoo group and elsewhere), so I hope you can take this in the spirit that its intended.
I think the best thing you could do to make a contribution to the OGL industry is to contribute something to it. I know that's what you're trying to do with your association, but I think a better way to go about it would be to write something original.
A module, a sourcebook, the book that you always hope to see for sale when you fire up rpgnow but no one has written yet? That's the book you should write.
In the three months since I published Vigilance on rpgnow I have literally not met a single other publisher who was anything but kind and supportive.
It's an experience I wouldn't trade for anything.
If you want to help the OGL Publishing community, I think that's the place to start.
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