[PR] The Association of OGL Publishers

[Mystic Eye]

(( quote from Nemesispress))
But you are absolutely right. If all you want out of this is an enjoyable hobby and a small circle of admirers, then there is absolutely no need for you to join (though we'd still like your input).

However, if you want to see both the market and your company grow (beyond the "cottage"), well that's the entire definition of what a trade organization does.
((end quote))

John,

So, May I ask how? The only way you can help to grow my business has little or nothing to do with the OGL.
Will you find sources of seed money to grow these companies?
Will you secure valuable licenses for these companies that will increase the value of their organization?
Will you, some way, expand their market potential and if so, how do you intend to do that?
Are you going to help them write solid business plans with a roadmap to profitability? If so, how are you qualified to do so?
What qualifications do you have( yourself or via your trade association that exists today) to claim this?

I am not trying to slam you but rather to understand your point of view. What have you done to give you the insight to make the claim that your new association will help grow a companies business and the market.
If John Nephew or Peter Adkison said " I am putting together a trade association to help grow your business" I would sign up in a heartbeat. They have a proven record and a ton of noteworthy experience. They have proven their value over and over.
Why do you presume you can do better then the rest of us, or even form an association that will, when you don't have this track record yourself?

I have a track record over the last year and a half of tremendous success as a small press start-up publisher ( I can make list but this is not about my capability or that of MEG) and I would never make the claims you are making here.
I will humbly say I still have a lot to learn regardless of my general business experience. John Nephew has proven that to me simply by posting advice to others.
My problem with this is I can't see you or your association helping me in any valuable way.

To make a point, you note that all legal business entities need a tax-ID. That is not true. A sole proprietorship (at least in California and Texas, the areas I have done this in) don't need one at all unless they are selling into their own state. The owner can use his or her Social Security number and pay taxes on income they get from the sole proprietorship. Even a limited parntership can be structured this way.
My point is, this is a simple fact and you did not know it, so again, how do you presume to help grow my business and what does the OGL itself have to do with my distribtution potential and business viability, or my growth? Finding a million dollar license would be a better focus for my energies than joining yet another movement, to be honest.

So help me really understand how you plan to help me grow over and above what I am doing already. Help me understand how an association for the OGL will really help me grow. If you plan to have legal service, who is providing those and what is their experience (as an example)? Explain it to me so I can understand or I, like others will see this as a guy blowing air on a soapbox.

 

[Pramas]

I hate to break it to you, but there are really only two companies for the most part that fit into your first category: WotC and WW. You could argue that Atlas does too, but they only do because they do other non-d20 products. Green Ronin perhaps. AEG does other non-d20 things.

Green Ronin has two full time, paid staff people and two part time, paid staff people. I guess that makes us part of the establishment now!

 

[Orcus]

Holy cow! It takes a lot to get Davis to rant

He's right though. We are all here to help each other. I cant tell you how many times I have helped Davis or Steve with a legal issue, or posted info to boards or answered questions. And I am just like everyone else. John Nephew is always in here answering questions and helping out (see helpful comments above). And Ryan. And a horde of other people. Because thats just how people do things in a small industry.

I quess this is why you drew so much heat on your old thread. I am not sure you value this. And this isnt an old boy's network because there is no threshold to entrance. All you need is an internet connection and a copy of Acrobat these days and you can be a publisher. And if you email me and ask a question I respond. And so does Ryan or John, etc etc.

I think John's suggestion about bringing these issues to the attention of GAMA is a great idea. Maybe our Mr. Kantor can come to GAMA next year with a fledgling company and pitch that very idea.

Clark

Eosin, shame on you for hooking him up with CotGP

 

[Mystic Eye]

Green Ronin has two full time, paid staff people and two part time, paid staff people. I guess that makes us part of the establishment now!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I am full time now with more to come. Wooo hooo big time!

Ornery Troll ranted and that is amazing. He is right too. Every time I have actually needed help someone with "experience" from the community was there. Actually, everyone I asked offered their sound advice. This is a great community of publishers who do try to work together as best we are able to do.

 

[Melan]

I think one of the reasons Nemesis Press got flamed was his implication that the d20 market is an unfriendly and cutthroat place - when in fact it isn't. As far as I know.

 

[Mystic Eye]

I think one of the reasons Nemesis Press got flamed was his implication that the d20 market is an unfriendly and cutthroat place - when in fact it isn't. As far as I know.

Well, I would agree a little but if this is accurate it simply shows the lack of experience to make the claims he is making. I hate flaming poeple actually, but I have seen several of these "associations" pop-up and it is usually by someone who has never published anything making assumptions that are often not accurate at all yet stating they can "fix" everything. I was, early on, foolish enough to join them and watch them all go down in flames. Now my answer is, it really ain't broke and if you were actively publishing you would probably know that.

I am not saying this is the same case here. It just "seems" like it is. I am reserving judgement.

 

[Inzae]

Consider this

Yes

For some reason this is really getting to me and Melan and everyone else has hit it squarely on the head - the implication is that this is an unfriendly, cutthroat business.

Necromancer (Clark and BIll), Atlas (J. Nephew), Mystic Eye (Doug and Hal), Paradigm, Green Ronin, Mongoose, etc are all our competitors. They are trying to make some money (at least enough to make the publishing effort worthwhile) in a very tight market. Every piece of advice, all the help etc. potentially undercuts their own sales. And yet, they give it willingly.

What up??? I'll tell yah. THese are good people, we are gamers first and publishers second. I no more want to see any of these companies go out of business than they want (LOL) to see us go out of business. All the companies have something to offer portions of the markets and each fills it niche, the good thing about the OGL is that one niche can now help prop up another niche.
Hell, even WoTC threw us a bone when we violated the OGL. And they could have, should they have chosen, made us pull one of our mods. But they didn't. Their law man called steve - they chit chatted - wrote in an exception (one time) and said don't do again.

Ask Dancey or anyone else at WoTC, they see violations all the time, in virtually every company. But have they made anyone pull a product yet - NO. Will they - unlikely as long as the spirit of the OGL is being followed and no gross violations occur.

So anyway drop it and move on to something more useful to us d20 publishers. Another company producing good product.

I am going to bed.

night alll - woops I have to finish a mod tonight.

PLUG - By Shadow of Night: Bergholt

Davis

 

[Pramas]

I think one of the reasons Nemesis Press got flamed was his implication that the d20 market is an unfriendly and cutthroat place - when in fact it isn't. As far as I know.

Well, the market itself is rather cutthroat these days, but that doesn't mean it's unfriendly. Folks from different d20 companies hang out at cons, swap product, offer advice, and so on. We may compete in the marketplace, but by and large it's pretty friendly.

 

[EricNoah]

I think some folks are using the word cutthroat to imply shady dealings, backstabbing, unfairly using inside knowledge or your power as a leader in the community to advantage, etc. Certainly the competition can be fierce but fair all the while.

 

[Napftor]

Is that the key to this thread dangling dangerously close to the lock there Eric? Hm, must be my imagination.

As for cutthroatiness (CAUTION: Don't use this word at home, as I don't think it's Webster approved), I too believe this to be as far away from the truth as possible. In my newbie stabs at freelancing, I have found every company I've queried to and written for both friendly and pretty much easy-going. And as for the Association, until a game plan is laid out, I'm offering my 10-foot pole to someone else.