[PR] The Association of OGL Publishers

[dreamthief]

I don't see the need...

Well they're being heard here. I don't see the need for the association. Advice/guides have been plentiful on this board as well as RPG.net's boards. The support is already out there without having to create an 'association', especially one that at this time, doesn't have any information to provide or a compelling reason to join.

 

[NemesisPress]

Re: I don't see the need...

Advice/guides have been plentiful on this board as well as RPG.net's boards.

I'm glad you brought that up, because it speaks to the obvious misinterpretation of what a trade association is. A trade association isn't just a forum for people to trade ideas (though we do have a forum). It's a way for companies engaged in similar pursuits to pool their resources through a variety of formal and informal means.

The Association of OGL Publishers will not only share information (though it will do that much more efficiently than an ad-hoc forum like this one), but will actively take part in the industry, providing everything from a liason to distribution channels to (eventually) legal services for those whose livelihood is threatened (perhaps by someone stealing their protected content).

Of course, the fundamental reason for an OGL company to join is that it is an opportunity to both help grow the industry and to make them more competitive with companies who are less savvy about OGLs. (Needless to say, those companies will see the association as a threat to their market share.)

An equally important reason, however, is that it provides a unified voice for those in this industry, so that they can be heard on important issues - whether involving licensing and copyright/left issues, tax issues, censorship, etc.

There isn't anything remotely like this association currently extant. It will only complement the efforts of hardworking people like Morrus and the administrators of those other sites.

 

[Melan]

This is all nice. Now that this Association is set up, could we take a look at your *company's* website? You know, to see what do you have to offer us, the consumers. Because when I go to www.nemesispress.com, I see nothing. Or is the Association more important than, you know, actually (GASP!) producing stuff?

 

[NemesisPress]

Well actually it is. I have a number of plans for OGL products, but I want to ensure that there is a vibrant industry and growing market for them.

If nothing else, I'm a consumer of OGL products myself and I want to see the industry do well for the same reason. (I just purchased Sidewinder from Citizen Games by the way. It's not only incredibly well done, but is almost entirely open content. I think we'll rapidly see an entire new market segment appearing.)

And since I don't have an established product line which relies on licenses, I'm much more aware of how important the OGL is to this industry.

That being said, I have no desire to be president of the association. Once the membership stabilizes, we'll have elections and the members will choose their representatives.

(I make a point not to call myself "President" now. I'm merely the organizer.)

 

[Napftor]

Well actually it is. I have a number of plans for OGL products, but I want to ensure that there is a vibrant industry and growing market for them.

Um, if there isn't a vibrant and growing industry now, then there never will be. Though I am a lowly freelance writer, I would speculate that you might get more respect and attention from publishers (et al) if you've actually produced something (whether or not its a best seller).

 

[NemesisPress]

So you don't respect consumers? (I know you didn't intentionally mean that, but that's the logic behind that thinking. The flipside of it is that you may end up valorizing certain people and viewpoints just because they have position and power - and not because what they say is good for the industry.)

As for a "vibrant and thriving" market - not really. Of course the potential is obvious to all (especially those who feel threatened by it). What I see is a market that is plateauing - with the larger, established companies being able to pretty much shoulder aside some of the most innovative smaller ones.

To get past that plateau, the smaller companies are going to have to work together - or resign themselves to operating in the small recesses of the market and at the larger companies' largesse.

As a freelancer you should be well-aware of the difficulty of making a livable income from this type of work - especially in this industry. The potential is there for it to grow ten-fold.

(And I've produced a lot of "products" in several industries over the last 20 years.)

 

[Darke]

I want to sum up what I think about this:
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LOL



das Darke

 

[Lizard]

Permit me to be the 9,354th person to note this looks like nothing more than a combination egofest/soapbox for Nemesis...

Let's look at the claims...

1. to give OGL publishers a unified voice in matters where, as individuals, they might otherwise remain unheard; and

2. to provide those publishers with support in all areas relating to the creation, production, sales, marketing, and distribution of OGL products.

These sort of vague promises, filled with a lot of emotion-impact words but dreadfully short on specifics, tend to make me want to cover my wallet with one hand and reach for my gun with the other.


Claim 1: WHAT matters? A voice speaking to WHOM? About the only entity any OGL publisher needs to 'speak' to is WOTC, and, frankly, I don't see much chance of any trade organization being big enough to do much. Sure, the STL helps sales of D&D stuff, but, if every STL publisher went under tomorrow:
a)WOTC wouldn't notice.
b)There'd be thirty more the day AFTER tomorrow.

And what 'matters', precisely, does the OGL community need a voice in? What 'demands' are being unmet, and by whom, and why should those demands BE met? And a voice without a stick behind it is pretty useless. How will this trade organization enforce its will? What methods will it use to impose meaningful consequences on those who do not heed its word?

And and, how does this differ from the many public forums and private industry lists where professionals already air their issues and grievances?

Onto claim 2: Provide support HOW? Support costs money -- do you propose that companies already strapped for cash ante-up dues or fees to your organization? If all you mean to offer is advice, then, again, how are the present forums inadequate to this task?

Can you please provide a SPECIFIC issue where this 'Trade Association' will provide some MEANINGFUL BENEFIT to its members?

1)Name the issue.
2)Explain why this issue affects a majority of publishers.
3)Show how various publishers, acting as individuals, have failed to resolve this issue.
4)Show how your trade organization COULD resolve this issue.

No vague hints or oblique references, please. A concrete issue, with some names, dates, places, product IDs, and other relevant facts.

 

[Orcus]

I think his point is is that it is hard to buy into your "I'm here to save the OGL and create a vibrant industry" when you havent contributed or even attempted to contribute to the industry in any way. Its sort of putting the cart before the horse. Because right now you are just a blow hard with a rather rude tone. The "my ideas are morally superior to yours and I know better than you" thing doesnt play well. Or at least people dont listen for very long.

Here is a suggestion (though I'm sure as usual you will pervert it into my trying to subvert you):

Focus on your company. Make some great open products. Everyone would like to see that. We all want open gaming to succeed. Establish yourself as someone who doesnt just come in, pop off and disappear three months later. We have all seen that before.

Oh, and another little tip: dont get antagonistic with posters, like that little quip to Napftor. That is no way to get people to join your organization or to take you serioiusly.

[edit: seems like he edited his post just as I was posting mine]

Believe it or not, I hope your organization succeeds. The idea is a good one. Collective effort is great.

Good luck.

Clark

 

[NemesisPress]

Right now, the OGL market consists of two elements: established business entities which actually make a living for one or more people (and who are all too aware of all of the issues you raise since they worry about them daily), and their "cottage-industry" cohorts who do this primarily as a hobby.

But you are absolutely right. If all you want out of this is an enjoyable hobby and a small circle of admirers, then there is absolutely no need for you to join (though we'd still like your input).

However, if you want to see both the market and your company grow (beyond the "cottage"), well that's the entire definition of what a trade organization does.

And in a capitalist society it's inevitable that markets will grow where there is potential - and there certainly is here. The decision for you to make is whether you'd like to help guide that growth or just come along for the ride.