Practitioner of The Hala (Commando Unarmed Combat)

[Ace]

Here is a bit from my campaign setting.

This is a Martial Art Prestige Class inspired by Krav Maga, Medieval Knife Wrestling and the Rex Applegate hand to hand combat methods

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“You come here to learn to fight” The old master said flatly “Good. But I am not going to show you how to fight.” A few of the Students looked confused. One, a little man in dun colored trousers and tunic spoke up “Than what are you going show us?”
The old man grinned “How to win”

The Hala is the Vinyaran system of systemic armed and unarmed combat. It a very rough art concentrating on basic combat augmented by blows and attacks to the vital areas of the body.

The dealiness of the training and the imntimate knowledge of the body (and how to wreck it) means that many of the Practitioners are excellent healers by necessity
Practitioners tend to be mostly Professional Soldiers, Mercenaries and Adventurers.
Most common classes areFighters and Rogues but other types that engage in a lot of Unarmed Combat will benefit from some of the abilities.


Practitioner of The Hala
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10.
Requirements:
·BAB +3
·Feats:, Combat Reflexes. Expert Tactician, Improved Unarmed Combat

Skill points per level: 4

Class Skills: The Hala Practitioner’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha) , Heal (Wis) Jump (Str), Sense Motive (Wis) Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex)
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Practitioners of the Hala do not gain any weapon or armor proficiencies

Table: The Hala Practitioner
Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Special
----- ------ ---- ---- ---- ---- -------
1st +1 +0 +2 +0 Killing Blows
2nd +2 +0 +3 +0 Killing Grapple
3rd +3 +1 +3 +1 Throw & Break
4th +4 +1 +4 +1 Breaking Open
5th +5 +1 +4 +1 Master of Opportunity

Killing Blow: All hand-to-hand damage done by Hala Practitioner may be lethal or subdual at the players choice. Also by spending one attack of opportunity the Hala Practitioner may add 1d4 damage to any attack. This ability does not work on creatures immune to crits.

.Killing Grapple: At 2nd level, a Hala Practitioner gains the Improved Grapple feat . Also if unarmed or armed with a weapon 2 size categories smaller and he spends an attack of opportunity The Hala Practitioner may make another attack as a Killing Blow above. This may be done umber of attacks he can make in a round and without losing a grapple

Throw and Break:At 3rd level, a Hala Practitioner gains the Improved Trip ability and The improved Disarm ability. The Practitioner may use the Killing Blow as appropriate

Breaking Open: By Spending 1 attack of opportunity he may subtract his level in Hala Practitioner class from his opponent’s armor class. This may only be done once per opponent per round

Master of Opportunity: The Hala master gains his Dex bonus in additional attacks of opportunity. This does stack with Combat Reflexes

 

[barsoomcore]

Pretty cool, Ace. I like the concept of "spending" attacks of opportunity. I just might use this -- it's very unusual and doesn't look unbalanced to my unexpert eye. Have you seen it played?

 

[Ace]

Pretty cool, Ace. I like the concept of "spending" attacks of opportunity. I just might use this -- it's very unusual and doesn't look unbalanced to my unexpert eye. Have you seen it played?

Thanks!

I haven't played it yet. I am not GMing right now and I cooked it up only recently, it was actually for Midrea my contest entry, just in case I had to actually write the thing

 

[Dagredhel]

Hi Ace. I think your concept is pretty cool, and I like your descriptive text, but I also think your PrC needs some work balance-wise. Here is my critique:

1) The requirements are too low, especially for a PrC that packs such a punch (pun intended.) Normally, PrCs have requirements that demand an entrant be around 6th level, if not higher. The requirements should be more stringent if the benefits of the PrC are especially good. A higher BAB requirement is a start. And a BAB of 3+ is actually superfluous, as it is a prerequisite for the Expert Tactician feat also required.

2) 4 skill points per level is high for a PrC that only has 7 class skills.

3) A few of the special abilities you've developed use a rule mechanic that involves substituting a single AoO to receive the benefit. But this is seriously mitigated by the fact that the Hala Practitioner will have Combat Reflexes (and likely a good Dex.) Further, while Attacks of Opportunity can only be used when the situation warrants it, and only once against a given opponent, the trade-off benefits would be utilizable in every melee. Often, the character would be trading off an AoO that he couldn't use anyway!

4) As a 5-level PrC, the Hala Practitioner is unquestionably, tremendously overpowered, receiving 3 bonus feats and something like 4 special abilities, with better skills and skill points than the Fighter, d10 HD, a good Reflex Save, and the best BAB progression. Spreading the progression over 10 levels would help to balance it.

5) Most, if not all of the class' special abilities and pseudo-feats should be restricted to use when unarmored and not heavily encumbered.

6) I have no idea what this is supposed to mean:

Also if unarmed or armed with a weapon 2 size categories smaller and he spends an attack of opportunity The Hala Practitioner may make another attack as a Killing Blow above. This may be done umber of attacks he can make in a round and without losing a grapple

It does sound interesting, though.

7) Receiving both Improved Trip and Improved Disarm at the same (3rd) level is much, much too powerful. A Fighter receives a bonus feat every other level, by comparison.

8) "Breaking Open": Again, way too powerful: This special ability would grant an effective attack bonus (AC penalty) to one attack directed at a particular foe each round, equal to the character's level in the prestige class. With Attacks of Opportunity, the character might even receive the bonus versus multiple adversaries. This ability should be reworked, or severely restricted in usages per day.

9) "Master of Opportunity": I think you should consider making the additional AoO equal to the character's Int or Wis bonus, as is done for some of the official WOTC PrCs, rather than doubling the Dex bonus.

10) If you draw out the class to 10 levels, consider adding an ability akin to the Duelist's Precise Strike ability (Sword and Fist) that applies to the Hala Practitioner's unarmed attacks.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being overly harsh. If I didn't think the PrC had great potential and a solid concept behind it, I wouldn't have posted.

 

[Ace]

Re: Re: Practitioner of The Hala (Commando Unarmed Combat)

Hi Ace. I think your concept is pretty cool, and I like your descriptive text, but I also think your PrC needs some work balance-wise. Here is my critique:

1) The requirements are too low, especially for a PrC that packs such a punch (pun intended.) Normally, PrCs have requirements that demand an entrant be around 6th level, if not higher. The requirements should be more stringent if the benefits of the PrC are especially good. A higher BAB requirement is a start. And a BAB of 3+ is actually superfluous, as it is a prerequisite for the Expert Tactician feat also required.

2) 4 skill points per level is high for a PrC that only has 7 class skills.

3) A few of the special abilities you've developed use a rule mechanic that involves substituting a single AoO to receive the benefit. But this is seriously mitigated by the fact that the Hala Practitioner will have Combat Reflexes (and likely a good Dex.) Further, while Attacks of Opportunity can only be used when the situation warrants it, and only once against a given opponent, the trade-off benefits would be utilizable in every melee. Often, the character would be trading off an AoO that he couldn't use anyway!

4) As a 5-level PrC, the Hala Practitioner is unquestionably, tremendously overpowered, receiving 3 bonus feats and something like 4 special abilities, with better skills and skill points than the Fighter, d10 HD, a good Reflex Save, and the best BAB progression. Spreading the progression over 10 levels would help to balance it.

5) Most, if not all of the class' special abilities and pseudo-feats should be restricted to use when unarmored and not heavily encumbered.

6) I have no idea what this is supposed to mean:

It does sound interesting, though.

7) Receiving both Improved Trip and Improved Disarm at the same (3rd) level is much, much too powerful. A Fighter receives a bonus feat every other level, by comparison.

8) "Breaking Open": Again, way too powerful: This special ability would grant an effective attack bonus (AC penalty) to one attack directed at a particular foe each round, equal to the character's level in the prestige class. With Attacks of Opportunity, the character might even receive the bonus versus multiple adversaries. This ability should be reworked, or severely restricted in usages per day.

9) "Master of Opportunity": I think you should consider making the additional AoO equal to the character's Int or Wis bonus, as is done for some of the official WOTC PrCs, rather than doubling the Dex bonus.

10) If you draw out the class to 10 levels, consider adding an ability akin to the Duelist's Precise Strike ability (Sword and Fist) that applies to the Hala Practitioner's unarmed attacks.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being overly harsh. If I didn't think the PrC had great potential and a solid concept behind it, I wouldn't have posted.

Thanks for the feedback! D&D is not my main system so Balance is always an issue with me. Let me try version 2.0 but first my reply with the problems

1 Probably right-- I will just a new feat requirement or two and raise the BAB to 5

2 Good point also- Make this 2 points per level. I run skill heavy games (everybody gets 2 extra skills per level) so I used my logic not standard D&D logic. DOH

3 Thats was partailly the point. THe reason thye use an AOO is that it limits the ability use and it forces a charcter to make tactical decisions. I figure that a Duelist gets 1d6 damage to every single attack at a pretty low level so its balanced

4 I do see your point about the power level but I think a few minor changes will do.

5 Agreed. I will limit the abilities to light armor and not heavily encumbered. This fits the culture very well

6Lets try this
Also if a Hala Practitioner is unarmed or armed with a weapon 2 size categories smaller than he is and he spends an attack of opportunity The Hala Practitioner may make another attack. This is treated as a Killing Blow ability. This may be done once per without losing a grapple.

Better?

7 I will just make Improved Grapple a requirement and just give improved trip

8 Since a character would have to be 10th level in the new version to get the ability is it balanced now? I figure such a charcter could get a quickened true strike item pretty easily this doesn't seem to bad. If is still off a suggestion would be appreciated

9 Done. The new text will read Gains additional AOO's equal to INT bonus

10 The deadly blow is a little like the precise strike only limited in uses. They serve the same ecological niche

 

[Ace]

Hala Practitioner 2.0 version

“You come here to learn to fight” The old master said flatly “Good. But I am not going to show you how to fight.” A few of the Students looked confused. One, a little man in dun colored trousers and tunic spoke up “Than what are you going show us?”
The old man grinned “How to win”

The Hala is the Vinyaran system of systemic armed and unarmed combat. It a very rough art concentrating on basic combat augmented by blows and attacks to the vital areas of the body.

The deadliness of the training and the imntimate knowledge of the body (and how to wreck it) means that many of the Practitioners are excellent healers by necessity
Practitioners tend to be mostly Professional Soldiers, Mercenaries and Adventurers.
Most common classes are Fighters and Rogues but other types that engage in a lot of Unarmed Combat will benefit from some of the abilities.


Practitioner of The Hala
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10.
Requirements:
·BAB +5
·Feats:, Combat Reflexes. Expert Tactician, Improved Unarmed Combat, Improved Grapple

Skill points per level: 2

Class Skills: The Hala Practitioner’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha) , Heal (Wis) Jump (Str), Sense Motive (Wis) Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex)

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Practitioners of the Hala do not gain any weapon or armor proficiencies

Table: The Hala Practitioner
Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Special
----- ------ ---- ---- ---- ---- -------
1st +1 +0 +2 +0 Killing Blows
2nd +2 +0 +3 +0 Killing Grapple
3rd +3 +1 +3 +1 Throw & Break
4th +4 +1 +4 +1 Breaking Open
5th +5 +1 +4 +1 Master of Opportunity

Killing Blow: All hand-to-hand damage done by Hala Practitioner may be lethal or subdual at the players choice. Also by spending one attack of opportunity the Hala Practitioner may add 1d4 damage to any attack. This ability does not work on creatures immune to crits.

.Killing Grapple: Also if a Hala Practitioner is unarmed or armed with a weapon 2 size categories smaller than he is and an attack of opportunity is spent The Hala Practitioner may make another attack. This is treated as a Killing Blow ability. This may be done once combat and without losing a grapple


Throw or Break:At 3rd level, a Hala Practitioner gains either the Improved Trip ability and The improved Disarm ability as a virtual feat The Practitioner may use the Killing Blow as appropriate

Breaking Open: By Spending 1 attack of opportunity he may subtract his Level in Hala Practitioner from his opponent’s armor class. This may only be done once per opponent per round

Master of Opportunity: The Hala master gains his INT bonus in additional attacks of opportunity. This does stack with Combat Reflexes

 

[Dagredhel]

Re: Re: Re: Practitioner of The Hala (Commando Unarmed Combat)

Hey Ace. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you (I'm not online all that often.)

Here are my reactions to your responses to my suggestions.

1. Characters should be a minimum of 5th level to gain levels in the PrC, and that is if they take the optimal path to meeting its requirements, i.e., choosing the class or class combo that allows them to fulfill the PrC's requirements the quickest. Requiring a BAB of 5+ will do this, as will requiring feats or skill ranks that would take that many levels to acquire.

I know you like those attack of opportunity related feats, but consider Close-Quarters Fighting from Sword and Fist, which seems to fit your conception nicely.


2. I'd be curious to hear your reasoning in assigning class skills, without which I don't have the basis for comment. But I do think that dropping the skill points to 2 per level is appropriate for the system.

3.

Thats was partailly the point. THe reason thye use an AOO is that it limits the ability use and it forces a charcter to make tactical decisions. I figure that a Duelist gets 1d6 damage to every single attack at a pretty low level so its balanced

I think I need a clarification: Can a Hala Practitioner sacrifice an AoO to use the Killing Blow damage bonus ONLY when he would actually have the opportunity to actually use the potential AoO, OR even when the potential AoO would otherwise go to waste because no enemy triggers it?

If the former is the case, then the additional damage requires a real trade off (the lost opportunity to attack using the AoO.) But it doesn't make much sense. In effect, the Hala Practitioner would be doing extra damage against a foe when forgoing attacks against a second foe, but not when only confronted with a single possible adversary!

In the later case, where potential AoO would go unused anyways much if not most of the time, the 'trade off' would usually be something for nothing (+1d4 damage for an AoO that the character can't use anyways.)

As a game mechanic, I'd suggest its not worth the trouble.

Compare Dirty Fighting, which gives the same damage bonus, but requires a full round attack.

The Duelist does get +1d6 with his Precise Strike, but only with a one handed impaling weapon--- which can be taken away.

I would strongly suggest considering an improvement in the Hala Practitioner's base unarmed combat damage, something similar to a monk's. 1d6 rather than 1d3 as a first level ability would seem very appropriate to the PrC.

I've run out of time today, but I'll get back to you as soon as possible with the rest of my feedback.

You're flavor text is great, by the way!

 

[Dagredhel]

Re: Re: Re: Practitioner of The Hala (Commando Unarmed Combat)

Hi again, Ace. It's my day off, so time for more comments:

4. I'm not saying that it's not possible to preserve the Hala Practitioner as a 5-level PrC, but if you do, I think you will have to cut back on the special abilities, for reasons of balance. Rather than scrap some good ideas to fit the level progression, you could extend the class to 10 levels and include more while maintaining balance.

5.

Agreed. I will limit the abilities to light armor and not heavily encumbered. This fits the culture very well

I imagine it would also fit your vision of the fighting style. I can't recall exactly, but doesn't the monk suffer the same percentage of failure as a spellcaster for wearing armor and attempting to use (at least some) of his special abilities? This is another game mechanic that might be suitable.

6.

Lets try this
Also if a Hala Practitioner is unarmed or armed with a weapon 2 size categories smaller than he is and he spends an attack of opportunity The Hala Practitioner may make another attack. This is treated as a Killing Blow ability. This may be done once per without losing a grapple.
Better?

I'm still not completely clear, but the description above does give me a basis for comment. The Hala Practitioner receives an additional attack per round, either an unarmed strike or an attack with a tiny weapon (assuming he is Medium sized.) Does this apply only when he is grappling and if so, does he get the extra attack versus the grappled opponent, or a second attacker, or can he use the extra attack against either? At what BAB is the extra attack made, his highest?

Again, 'spending' an AoO is very cheap, IMO. I really would suggest dropping it.

If the ability lets the Hala Practitioner make an attack, basically an AoO, against a second target while maintaining a grapple with his primary opponent, that's pretty cool. If its not what you were considering, then I'd suggest it might be worth adding to the PrC's repertoire.

If the Hala Practitioner is gaining an extra iterative attack to use at his discretion, then I'd suggest using a rule similar to the monk's Flurry of Blows, or maybe even giving the Hala Practitioner an iterative attack progression similar to the monk's that he can use with unarmed strikes, grapples, or tiny (assuming a Medium sized character) weapons.

7.

I will just make Improved Grapple a requirement and just give improved trip

If your adamant about making the Hala a 5-level PrC, then you may want to consider Improved Trip as a requirement rather than a bonus feat. I forget whether it was in the DMG or in one of Monte Cook's articles on his website that he suggests that any feats a prestige class character should definitely have should be requirements rather than a part of the PrC itself, and that the abilities granted by a PrC should be abilities that a character couldn't pick up without the PrC (so as to make them more distinctive, more special.)

On the other hand, you might consider requiring only Improved Unarmed Combat or Improved Grapple (either one, not specifically one or the other,) rather than both, and then grant the character the other as a 1st level ability, along with improved damage with unarmed and grappling attacks. The monk gets both, after all, along with a ton of other goodies at first level, with only an alignment requirement (aside from armor restriction)as a balancer.

And while we're on the subject, how about Weapon Focus [Unarmed Strike] or Weapon Focus [Grapple]? Expertise (if that's what the feat that allows a character to substitute his Dex bonus instead of his Str bonus to a certain type of attack) could substitute for either Weapon Focus, if it were more advantageous to the character.

8.

Since a character would have to be 10th level in the new version to get the ability is it balanced now? I figure such a charcter could get a quickened true strike item pretty easily this doesn't seem to bad. If is still off a suggestion would be appreciated

IMO, "Breaking Open" would only be balanced if restricted to a single or at most a few uses per day, with increasing usages staggered across levels in the PrC.

An alternative that I'd like to suggest (and something completely different,) would be to allow the Hala to retain their Dex bonus to AC when grappling and avoid the usual penalties (an attacker outside the grapple wouldn't gain an attack bonus against the character, and the character wouldn't lose any bonuses lost when a Dex bonus is lost.)

9.

Done. The new text will read Gains additional AOO's equal to INT bonus

Although I continue to urge you away from rules that involve AoOs, I do favor this one.

10.

The deadly blow is a little like the precise strike only limited in uses. They serve the same ecological niche

Give the Hala a base 1d6 damage with unarmed strike, grapples, and tiny weapons at first level of the PrC. (Base damage and weapon size assumes a Medium sized character, of course.) This can increase with level, especially if you were to spread the PrC over 10 of them.

One other note:

All hand-to-hand damage done by Hala Practitioner may be lethal or subdual at the players choice.

This text is redundant if you're speaking of unarmed strikes and grapples if the character has both Improved Grapple and Improved Unarmed Combat. If you mean to include weapon attacks as well, that's a whole different story, and it doesn't seem to fit.

I look forward to reading your reactions. I think you've got something good here, the makings of a really great PrC!

 

[Ace]

Thank you very much for your continued interest . I am going to produce a new version of the PRC and we will see what will happen.

I dropped the AOO related stuff from this version

“You come here to learn to fight” The old master said flatly “Good. But I am not going to show you how to fight.” A few of the Students looked confused. One, a little man in dun colored trousers and tunic spoke up “Than what are you going show us?”
The old man grinned “How to win”

The Hala is the Vinyaran system of systemic armed and unarmed combat. It a very rough art concentrating on basic combat augmented by blows and attacks to the vital areas of the body.

The dealiness of the training and the imntimate knowledge of the body (and how to wreck it) means that many of the Practitioners are excellent healers by necessity
Practitioners tend to be mostly Professional Soldiers, Mercenaries and Adventurers.
Most common classes areFighters and Rogues but other types that engage in a lot of Unarmed Combat will benefit from some of the abilities.


Practitioner of The Hala
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10.
Requirements:
·BAB +4
·Feats:, Combat Reflexes. Expert Tactician, Improved Unarmed Combat

Skill points per level: 2

Class Skills: The Hala Practitioner’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha) , Heal (Wis) Jump (Str), Sense Motive (Wis) Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex)
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Practitioners of the Hala do not gain any weapon or armor proficiencies

Table: The Hala Practitioner
Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Special
----- ------ ---- ---- ---- ---- -------
1st +1 +0 +2 +0 Killing Blows
2nd +2 +0 +3 +0 Killing Grapple
3rd +3 +1 +3 +1 Vital Shots
4th +4 +1 +4 +1 Breaking Open
5th +5 +1 +4 +1 Master of Opportunity

Killing Blow: The Hala Practitioners unarmed damage becomes 1d4. Damage may be lethal or subdual at the players option.

Killing Grapple: The Hala Practioner automatically may make another to hit roll to do 1d4 additional damage on a sucessfull grapple. This aability works while Unarmed or if carrying a weapon 2 size catagories smaller than the character. The ability may only be used may be used once per fight against any given foe.

Vital Shots : Damage from any weapon (including unarmed) is shifted by 1 die type. This ability may only be used on creatures that can be effected by Critical hits

Breaking Open: The Character gains the ability to subtract the BAB gained from his level in the Hala Practioner class from opponent Dex Bonus. This ability never results in a Dex Bonus of less than zero (excess declared BAB is refunded) but it can deny an opponent his Dex Bonus for the purpose of other abilities such as Sneak Attack . It may be used once per opponent per fight

Master of Opportunity: The Hala master may ignore AOO due to weapons reach

 

[Dagredhel]

This is just a shameless ***BUMP***

Am I the only one who loves custom PrCs?